NGP^85 -- Self Propelled SAM ?

[HirooOnoda]

[CptCav]

Meeting heavy fire from small arms and shoulder-mounted rocket-propelled grenades, the Apaches flew back to base, 30 of them shot up, several disablingly so. One helicopter was shot down in the encounter, and its two crewmen were taken prisoner.

Seems like the damage to the Apaches was due to small arms fire and RPG's instead of SAM's and AAA. As I stated earlier, the helicopter pilots I knew were more concerned about the ZSU and machineguns instead of the SAM's. Therefore, maybe the need is for a higher AA value in the combat units.

Regards,
CptCav

[Aaron]

I made it a combination of 2 things, 1 was the addition of SAMs with AA values of 6-14 and with the AAA at 10-14 and a Soviet Mech unit at 4 it works great. Instead of raising AA on ground units its not needed b/c a lowered DEF values on all Jets and Helos (2-6 points on Helos and 6-8 points on aircraft) the highest A/C value is the A-10 and SU-25 at 12 DEF(were at 20, thats why they never got shot down), most A/C r 8 to 10, helos 10-14. A change of 8 points makes all ground units already 40% more effective by dropping Def values on A/C and keeping values the same on ground units. U will c 40% more Helos get shoot down without even the SAMS, the addition of the SAMS will throw in another 10-20%. If u were like me when i play the game i almost never lost a Helo. A friend of the family was a cobra pilot in ACR and he didnt expect to be alive 30 minutes after a war started, yes AAA is most eff and the values show that but SAMS r effective in keeping Helos away from a small area, even though they r IF flagged they can only c what your units c therefore can only shoot at what u can c, if they could c everything in a 12 hex radius a would say no to them but u can still sneak through an area with them which seems realistic to me.

Aaron

[CptCav]

...A friend of the family was a cobra pilot in ACR and he didnt expect to be alive 30 minutes after a war started...

Just a side note, they told everyone that if they were in the 2nd or 11th ACR in Germany.
:boom2:

Regards,
CptCav

[Aaron]

Ha thats funny maybe thats where he got it from, but i believe it, i think if there was a war in general in Europe it wouldnt have lasted 7 days and deaths on both sides would be very,very high(1 million). I was a M-60 gunner in the rangers and i was told i wouldnt last 60 seconds but i beat the odds a few times but i also wasnt in central europe, iraqs and skinnys dont make good soldiers

Aaron.

[Mike Abberton]

[HirooOnoda]

This could all be solved if we just did away with the silly helo units once and for all. ;->

[shortreengage]

Can be make the mixed divisions of air defence, as recon unit USA (M1 + Bradley), with average values of attack ?!
Range = 3 hex.


Antiaircraft it is rocket - the artillery battery regiment USSR.
SPAA "Shilka" - SP SAM "SA-13".
1968 - 1986.
For tank and motor-shooting regiments.

HQ Battery.
Command Section.
Transport section.

It is antiaircraft - an artillery platoon.
4 units - ZSU - 23-4 "Shilka".

It is antiaircraft - a rocket platoon (in MRR could be 1 or 3 similar platoons).
4 units - SA-9 or SA-13

[Aaron]

All u need to do is reduce the DEF value of Helos. Ur done, its alot easier to do that than start making new AA values for all ground units, i know i already did it. Most ground troops have a 4 (APC,MOT equip) 5 (IFV equip) 3 (Tank units) already which is a good representation of small arms and with the range of 1 makes it good for the stinger/Sa-7. If u run into 1 ground unit flying around the odds r bigger that u lose a helo,now if u run into 2-3 ground units u will definitely lose a helo if not 2. The strength of the SAMs lie in its range not its AA value b/c yes their not as effective against helos but they can keep them at bay.

Aaron

PAR HEL 110 6 10 1 0 12 1 0 4 1 0 10 12 20 0 Infantry (FJ)
INF HEL 115 5 12 1 0 12 1 0 4 1 0 10 12 18 0 Infantry (Hel) Brit
INF HEL 144 4 8 1 0 12 1 0 2 1 0 10 12 18 0 Mi-8
GM HEL 6 4 24 2 0 14 1 0 6 1 0 14 0 24 0 Mi-24
REC HEL 6 4 2 1 0 5 1 0 1 1 0 10 0 18 0 Mi-2
INF HEL 150 5 10 1 0 12 1 0 4 1 0 10 12 16 0 Inf (UH-60A)
INF HEL 81 6 10 1 0 12 1 0 4 1 0 10 14 20 0 Marine Recon
GM HEL 18 5 36 3 0 18 1 0 6 1 0 14 0 24 0 AH-64A Apache
GM HEL 21 5 30 2 0 18 1 0 4 1 0 12 0 20 0 AH-1F Cobra
GM HEL 12 5 16 2 0 14 1 0 2 1 0 10 0 18 0 AeroWpns & Scout
GM HEL 28 5 28 2 0 12 1 0 4 1 0 10 0 18 0 PAH-1
REC HEL 12 6 6 1 0 8 1 0 2 1 0 10 0 22 0 Gazelle
GM HEL 16 6 28 2 0 10 1 0 2 1 0 10 0 22 0 Gazelle (HOT)
GM HEL 18 5 28 2 0 12 1 0 4 1 0 10 0 22 0 Lynx-TOW


AA TRK 12 5 10 1 0 16 1 0 12 1 0 16 14 14 0 M163 Vulcan
AA MOT 12 5 10 1 0 16 1 0 12 1 0 10 8 12 0 M167 Vulcan
AA TRK 9 4 14 1 0 16 1 0 14 2 0 20 14 14 0 Gepard
AA TRK 9 4 10 1 0 18 1 0 14 2 0 14 14 13 0 ZSU-23
AA MOT 12 3 12 1 0 12 1 0 10 2 0 10 0 12 0 57mm S-60
AA MOT 16 4 12 1 0 14 1 0 12 2 0 12 12 12 0 M-53-59
AA TRK 16 4 12 1 0 16 1 0 14 4 0 16 14 14 0 2s6
AA TRK 10 4 0 1 0 0 1 0 10 14 2 10 0 14 0 SA-11
AA TRK 10 4 0 1 0 0 1 0 6 12 3 10 0 12 0 SA-6
AA MOT 10 4 0 1 0 0 1 0 8 7 2 10 0 15 0 SA-8
AA TRK 12 4 0 1 0 0 1 0 10 4 1 12 0 14 0 Roland
AA TRK 12 5 0 1 0 0 1 0 8 3 1 10 0 14 0 Chaparral
AA TRK 12 5 0 1 0 0 1 0 10 5 1 10 0 13 0 Rapier (SP)
AA MOT 12 5 0 1 0 0 1 0 10 5 1 8 0 10 0 Rapier (Towed)

Most Helos have come down 2 points, would have been more but with the additions of SAMS i dosnt need to. By comparing units above its pretty even between AA value and DEF value. The Jet aircraft are running about the same DEF values of 8-14, nice and balanced.

[shortreengage]

Presence ZSU-57 at least in the Soviet army is doubtful.
ZSU 23-4 "Shilka" have started to let out serially in 1964.
By 1985 they have for certain replaced ZSU-57 in armies Warsaw Pact.


ZSU 23-4 "Shilka"