ITTY BITTY LITTLE KITTY (In early 1942!)

[Copper]

For those of you who do not know, here is a good dueling tip for early 1942 quick battles or scenarios where these units are prevalent.

The Panzer IIIL and IIIJ are what are known by me as "itty bitty little kitties". Why?

Because the ubiquitous Soviet 76mm cannon found on almost every vehicle of the 1942(early) period, cannot penetrate the turret and upper hull armor of these German tanks when in hull down position.



Actually, when in proper hull down position, Soviet tanks will begin firing HE at the turret, in order to get a gun hit. Although the MKIIIJ and L have a fine gun in the 50mm L/60, they cannot typically penetrate a KV's armor over 500m, therefore, this often sets up a perpetual "plink fest" where two or more KV's and MK IIIJ or L's can sit in this position for turns, just wasting ammo on each other.

IF you want a little tank that takes punishment hull down like a Tiger tank in early 1942, buy yourself at least one of these to take the brunt of a soviet 76mm attack and then run yourself a platoon of MK IV's to their near flank.

In a current game with Schwerpunkt, 4 KV-1's have gone three turns with 5 hull down MKIIIJ's with absolutely no tank kills! Over 20 AP rounds have hit one of my MK IIIJ's and bounced off without even a partial penetration or gun damage...

Think about this little tidbit when you go to play in the early 1942 era where Russian supertanks are going to piss you off... it may piss off your opponent even more when he realizes he can't kill your defilade MK III's!!!

Hopefully this wisdom can be put to good use, and if so, green clickies (I need a fix, mannnnnn...) would be appreciated.

Cheers!


Leto the clickie Junkie

[raz_atoth]

I believe they'll be able to penetrate KV's armor even from more than 500m if they use tungsten rounds?

[Copper]

I believe they'll be able to penetrate KV's armor even from more than 500m if they use tungsten rounds?

Yep, as you can see in the picture, the MK III has a low penetration at near 500m due to the TUNGSTEN rounds, but there are only four, and typically they get chewed through awful fast.

Cheers!

Leto

[PoorOldSpike]

Yes the up-armoured PzIII is a tough little s.o.b but to make sure you're getting the right one at the buy screen, run your cursor over the III family until the '70mm-armour' readout comes up as below on the left, otherwise you might buy a crap 50mm-armour version by mistake.
(Oh and noobs - make sure you're buying the one with the L60 gun at the same time, not the short L42 peashooter)

ALSO (roll drums, sound fanfare!) - you can buy the Stug IIIF (late) in May 42 (below right) which has 80mm armour and can't be penetrated by T-34/76's or KV-1's whether hulldown or not, AND it has a wicked gun that can easily wreck T-34's/KV's.

[General SP]

Yes,

The StuG 111F is a hard little sod ! (but cheap to buy), which is even better !.

[Chipmunk]

The PZ IIIs also make a good choice in the Western Desert. Even in late '42 the 75mm on Grants and Shermans and the 6 pdr can only penetrate the turret front at very close range (< 100m)

[McIvan]

????.....don't understand that one, Peek. A 6pdr will go through the front of a Tiger at short range....why would it have trouble with a PIII? You might be thinking of a 2pdr, perhaps? The Sherman 75mm will bounce from a PIII occasionally but will mostly go through.

[Chipmunk]

????.....don't understand that one, Peek. A 6pdr will go through the front of a Tiger at short range....why would it have trouble with a PIII? You might be thinking of a 2pdr, perhaps? The Sherman 75mm will bounce from a PIII occasionally but will mostly go through.

Yeah, I meant it's vulnerable to a 6pdr at short range but at medium range it's not. The Pz IIIL has a 50+20/curved turret front. It's my understanding that curved is treated as roughly the equivalent of 30 degree slope. The 6pdr penetration on 30 degree at less than 100m is 86 so it can get thru at that range. However it's pen at 500m is 66 so somewhere between 100 and 500 meters it loses the ability to get through. For the Grant's 75mm the figures are 73 and 68 so that can't penetrate much further out than 100m.

[McIvan]

The Sherman gun is more powerful than the Grants, but even with the Grant I would expect it to penetrate more often than not.

With curved armour, the game does actually work out the angle of the hit.....so it can be anywhere from zero degees to whatever the maximum was in real life. It usually won't be thirty degrees but something less.

Also bear in mind that 50mm + 20mm does not equal 70mm of protection, but rather something like 64mm or so (I can't remember the exact formula...think its thickest plus 70% of smallest).

Without running a test, I'd say that a 6pdr would have no trouble getting through a PIII with 70mm armour at 500m.

[Chipmunk]

Ok I just ran a quick test, 5 6pdrs vs 5 hulldown Pz IIlILs at 500m (panzers given short arcs so they wouldn't fire back). After one turn's firing all the 6pdr shots had bounced. As its gone 3am here that was my last test for the night but tomorrow I'll try to run some more extensive tests.