Defeating the M3 Grant in 1942

10-17-2007, 02:49 PM,

Playing in the KOTH2 tourney has put me and my panzer III's and short barrel panzer IV's against the mighty Grant.

Here are a few tips for defeating this beastie (not that I am currently succeeding or anything).

1) Grants in hulldown position do not fire main gun (75mm) and can only fire 37mm.
2) Because of the above, its very rare that the are used in hull down position, thus making them susceptible to low frontal armor penetrations (the turrent and mid frontal armor is nigh impenetrable by German guns of that circa).
3) The Grant responds much like a StuG or fixed gun TD, and can be made to turn to face flankers and reveal side shots.
4) The 75mm main gun is not accurate past 1000m, but is quite lethal under 750m. Stay above those ranges or die.
5) Panzer III varieties with reinforced frontal turret armor are almost impenetrable by the Grant in hulldown position at 750m plus.
6) Because of the twin ROF of the Grant, you have to be weary of even a trio of them, as they are throwing a lot of AP at you per turn. Therefore, make sure that you have at least a 2:1 tank advantage at anytime you engage
7) Pick your spots and keyhole Grant formations, or single grants and take them on one at a time if possible.
8) Marders with the 75 long can be used only as shoot and scoot units, and only at range, as the 37mm gun will take them out with its high ROF even at 750m. The 75 long on the Marder can penetrate the frontal armor, but not the turret at 1000m.
9) The PZ IV cannot penetrate the Grant frontal armor except for the lower hull even at 250m. Use PZ IV for smoke and cleaning up dead crews, or as a flanking diversion, as they are NO GOOD, against M3's
10) If you can, shoot out the Honey support first, and go after the Grants last. Taking on support tanks with operational Grants in LOS will be your doom.

Cheers!

Leto

kineas · 10-17-2007, 04:49 PM,

I haven't met with the Grants yet but let me ask a question about the desert terrain: is it a wise thing to go fast on "soft ground" with tanks, or they will bog down quickly?

Bert Blitzkrieg · 10-17-2007, 11:01 PM,

In the much acclaimed Tiger Valley scenario "my" Tigers had lot of front turret hits on the M3 ricocheted harmelesly away. Distance was les then 1.000 meters. Although the M3's couldn't scratch the Tigers I was impressed, or should I say baffled !

Another thing about the M3: it takes a lot of 50mm hits to knock one out ! They're tough ! In the Frühlingswind scenario (the demo) I had a hard time of killing them with my Panzers III !

10-18-2007, 12:30 AM,

BertBlitzkrieg (FGM) Wrote:In the much acclaimed Tiger Valley scenario "my" Tigers had lot of front turret hits on the M3 ricocheted harmelesly away. Distance was les then 1.000 meters. Although the M3's couldn't scratch the Tigers I was impressed, or should I say baffled !

Another thing about the M3: it takes a lot of 50mm hits to knock one out ! They're tough ! In the Frühlingswind scenario (the demo) I had a hard time of killing them with my Panzers III !

Like I said, the trick is to get into hull down with panzer III's (cannot be immobilized) and then pepper the Grant's (until they are immobilized). Then swing round and give them a fanny bop.

I am facing these right now, and after 2 turns of constant firing from 12 panzer III's in hull down, I've immobilized 2 of 5 grants for no loss to my own in immob's, gun damage or kills.

Cheers!

Leto

10-18-2007, 12:35 AM,

double post

10-18-2007, 12:37 AM,

kineas Wrote:I haven't met with the Grants yet but let me ask a question about the desert terrain: is it a wise thing to go fast on "soft ground" with tanks, or they will bog down quickly?

I've been using "fast" movements across soft ground for the last 14 turns and have not lost one tank to bogging. If you do bog, set "fast' move to "move" and it will usually dig itself out.

Cheers!

Leto

kineas · 10-18-2007, 01:12 AM,

[hirr Wrote:Leto]

kineas Wrote:I haven't met with the Grants yet but let me ask a question about the desert terrain: is it a wise thing to go fast on "soft ground" with tanks, or they will bog down quickly?

I've been using "fast" movements across soft ground for the last 14 turns and have not lost one tank to bogging. If you do bog, set "fast' move to "move" and it will usually dig itself out.

Cheers!

Leto

Thanks. If I bog I just order a complete halt and pray.
In this game I already had 3 bogdowns, luckily none of them led to immobilization.

PoorOldSpike · 10-18-2007, 04:58 AM,

Grant discussion and pics here -
https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards...?tid=39876

~~The Coil~~ · 10-18-2007, 06:09 AM,

[hirr Wrote:Leto]

kineas Wrote:I haven't met with the Grants yet but let me ask a question about the desert terrain: is it a wise thing to go fast on "soft ground" with tanks, or they will bog down quickly?

I've been using "fast" movements across soft ground for the last 14 turns and have not lost one tank to bogging. If you do bog, set "fast' move to "move" and it will usually dig itself out.

Cheers!

Leto

I while back I did a bunch of tests to see what the best method to unbog tanks was - I think I tested canceling orders, reversing, and bumping - basic result was "it doesn't matter what you do, they all unbog at about the same rate". The thread is around here someplace if you want to do a search.