Which counts more ...

[Panther]

... the fun factor while playing or the winning - no matter how?

Gentlemen,

after a disagree with one opponent i have this question. He use the exit Hex in round 8 from 18 without any possibilities for defending or secure the Hex (All units in this area are fixed!). Maybe i´m wrong with my opinion :chin:, but my fun factor is gone.

What do you think? Comments are welcome.

Regards,
Stefan

[Antoni Chmielowski]

I play for fun (and the odd win !).

I never try gamey tactics, but if I do suffer because of this, I never play the opponent again.

[majog]

I play for fun but in a tournament I tend to play to win. I watch the replays closer in a tourney and make notes. I do not usually do this when playing just for the fun of it.

Also did the opponent use and exit hex or just pull his units off the map. If an exit hex was used I find that fair play and reflective of a retreat. If he just pulled his units off the board to keep you from getting points I find that "chicken S&*T" and unsportsmanlike. Hard to say for sure though without knowing all the facts.

An exit hex should not need to be defended. By nature of being and design it is a place to get your units off the map and get points doing so. That can be in blowing past the objectives to reach a predetermined point in a predeterimined time or to obtain a strategic retreat. When a scn has an exit hex it is part of the strategic and tactical decision points on what you need to do to win.

[Hawk Kriegsman]

... the fun factor while playing or the winning - no matter how?

Gentlemen,

after a disagree with one opponent i have this question. He use the exit Hex in round 8 from 18 without any possibilities for defending or secure the Hex (All units in this area are fixed!). Maybe i´m wrong with my opinion :chin:, but my fun factor is gone.

What do you think? Comments are welcome.

Regards,
Stefan

Hello Stefan,

Was it your opponent's exit hex to use and recieve points for exiting units? If so he did nothing wrong and your lack of fun should be directed at the scenario and not the player.

What is the scenario?

As for me I try to play my best in every scenario in order to have fun. If I do that the wins take care of themselves. I have enough wins under my belt that I play purely for fun and to meet new players.

Thanx!

Erik

[Herr Straße Laufer]

I play mostly for the fun. :smoke:
At least that is what effects me the most.
I do keep an eye out for my win/loss percentage but, it is not my singular reason to play. :chin:

Gamey tactics, questionable play, taunting every turn when winning handlely, and/or game play which is so slow I do not remember playing what scenario, are the things that rip the fun from my heart. :mad: :censored:

I once had an opponent tell me he was going to pull part of a trapped Regiment off the board to deny me the points and a sure victory. I told him that is was not sporting, or allowed by established ROE's, and I would frown on him doing so. Over the next two turns he pulled his Regiment off the map, taking a shot at me with each unit as they disappeared off the board.
I still beat him but, never played him again.

Stefan, if I understand you correctly the player had an exit hex and he pulled troops off the map through his exit hex and gained points for doing so?
If that is the case, he was not using "a dirty trick" or "gamey" tactics. The exit hex was put in by the designer as a way to show the scenario was not based around who could kill the other. It was more he had a destination and you were supposed to stop him.
Why should he stick around to protect the exit hex? He left the game and gained points as the scenario was designed.
Your forces were to deny him exit? :2guns::smg:

At least that is what I think you are saying.

[Von Luck]

Well as i dont win many fun comes to mind why keep playing if you get beat more than you win.As to the other part Retreat to Radomysl comes to mind the Germans have an exit hex which gets them points but a lot of their units are fixed etx so they have to try and delay the Russians for as long as possible to get the units unfixed and hopefuuly off the map.As for taking units of the map yep i do no point in giving your opponent extra points for trucks etc when your defending and getting pushed back.Combat units no their their to defend and hold.

[Hog of War]

He still had to run the gantlet of your op fire from static troops, if this is the scenario I'm thinking of. With helicopters or trucks that could be a costly proposition. It's also possible to win as US without exiting a single unit or taking a single vp hex. It's just the way this scenario is set up. It's a tough one as VC to win in a non-blind game (unless your opponent is dumb enough to just go for it straight up the highway :-)

[zeiss]

To shed some light on this mystery.

Where: DGVN, "Ap Tau Ambush" in the Tigers vs. Dragons tournament.

Who: I'm the opponent.

Why: Panther's troops around the exit hex are fixed so he can't defend it. I didn't know this but he claims I did.
Even so, I assume the scenario designer has planned for this event so Panther can still win the scenario.

Panther: I thought you had contacted Majog about your concerns.

Hog: You win a bucket of carrots for identifying the scenario. :thumbs_up:

[majog]

To all:

"Ap Tau Ambush", is a very interesting scn and can be played a myriad of ways. This one is actually very balanced and has been one or lost by both side a serious number of times. Yes the exit hex is there. Most people who play blind try and make it to the hex and get waxed along the way. Some are more sneaky and find a way to keep from getting totally beat to hell. The NVA are not fixed the whole game an it is up to the US player to figure that out early enough. If you go up one side of the map the arty takes out your loaded heuy's if you go up the other you are safe but still cannot provide any cover for the armored column that still has to make it up the road to get additional points. Also the NVA can play havock on the armored column from a points perspective even if the US does not try to move up the road (but I won't share how as the Tourney is still on).

Another point.... this scn is similar to a new one I released several months back. If the US tries to engage the NVA head on it becomes a blood bath. The US player needs to decide early on that discression is the better part of valor and skirt the enemy when he can to come up behind the VP hexes that are lightly defended. The problem is that most players are used to EF and WF were the units points are the same for either side. You have to remind yourself that the NVA can loose 3 infantry unit for every US infanty or heuy unit in DGVN. That is one of key things that makes play more dynamic.

You also have civilians that can cause you negative points if you kill them. Jumbo was a master of drawing fire by using civilians. He even stooped to loading them into trucks and running them into ambushes. Unfair play, heck NO! It is programmed into the game to make it more complex than WF or EF. If you combine that with the mobility factors it is a little like the difference between basketball and football. One a sport of brawn and power the other of speed and agility. Football tactics won't work in basketball and DGVN tactics won't work in WF or EF.

Although as Stefan pointed out, having a good opponent that figures out the tricks takes some of the fun out of it, it is still fair play. His question of win at all cost (as long as fair) is a valid one in most play but in a tourney people play to win or why join. If you are not playing to win, you may as well continue to play the same group you have been before the tourney. Heck I am the scn designer and programmer of DGVN and lost a couple of rounds ago. I know the trick and could have done some edge of the rules things to win but like some others here just love to play and wanted to host another DGVN tourney not neccessarily just win a tourney. That having been said, those of you in the End of Summer Tourney watch out:), I made the mistake in the Sharks tourney of not watching a few replays and it ain't happening again.

Good luck to all and have fun, after all it is just a game and not real life.

[junk2drive]

I didn't know exiting was bad ettiquette. It is not in the other games I play.

Currently playing majog in Return to Stavelot. I have a boatload of useless trucks. I have been moving and removing them. If this is wrong, let me know.