Warning on Jap type 89 tank

Weasel · 10-19-2007, 03:06 AM,

WARNING: in a game I discovered that the Jap type 89 tank WILL NOT fire AP ammo at any time, no matter what the target or the range. In two experiments I set up, this tank would not engage other tanks, even when in the same hex, with AP but only HE. Once all HE is expended (80 rounds!) then it will fire AP. It got so bad in my game that I had my rear area counter attack tanks z firing into adjacent hexes to burn off HE. THIS TANK IS :censored:

(to do the experiment yourself, buy some type 89s and enemy tanks, deploy with all weapons turn off and drive them into the same hex. Then fire with the type 89 and watch the HE fly).

Also to go with this, the FT17 will only fire it's AP ammo at 2 hex range, anything above that it will only fire HE, once again no matter what the target.

It really sucked the weenies when I bought 16 of the type 89 planning on an armoured counter attack only to find out they were beyond useless. Damn things wouldn't even sink a landing barge!

Greybeard · 10-19-2007, 07:16 AM,

Hello Chris,

If I'm not mistaken- the sabot rounds in the FT-17 have a very short range limit.. I've used them before also and found that they were little better than a target drone..

For the Japanese type 89.. I looked one up in the encyclopedia.. the AP round only has a max pen of 3, while the HE has 2.. (unless I'm lookng at the wrong tanks).. possibly what is happening is that the AP penetration is so low, and drops to 2 so quickly, that the game might be defaulting to the HE for perceived 'better' performance.. or perhaps there is a foul-up in the gun data used for the OOB.. haven't looked there yet..

but then again, maybe you've just found out how good IJA tanks were in ww2 ;)

Greybeard

Weasel · 10-19-2007, 08:56 AM,

Walrus and myself thought of that, but it doesn't explain the zero range HE instead of AP either. And the HE will not penetrate anything, not even thin skinned armoured cars (which just ran right over my type 89s because, well, I couldn't kill them with HE). Once my one tank ran out of HE I was able to kill an enemy tank at 2 range with AP.

zeiss · 10-19-2007, 07:30 PM,

I did a quick test on the type 89 and it does fire AP at 0 hex range (same hex). WW2 2.5

I agree with Greybeard, this is working as designed. The early Japanese tanks were intended for infantry support not armoured assault.

Also note that it's possible to achieve 1 or 2 pen with HE.

Weasel · 10-20-2007, 01:16 AM,

Never did it fire AP for me, not once. And the HE bounced off everything, even targets with 1 point of armour. Even if the tank was designed as an infantry support weapon why would the commander fire HE at an armoured target? I don't think the Japanese are that stupid to not be able to distinguish a soldier from a tank.

It is screwed.

zeiss · 10-20-2007, 01:51 AM,

It's not about changing ammo type. I think the set-up of type 89 is meant to portray a useless tank with a useless gun.

My test was 3 type 89 vs. 6 Mk VI.

I managed to immobilise one Mk VI and even destroy another with HE. Before swooping forward at a breathtaking move 9 to destroy them at range 0 with AP. :smg:

Weasel · 10-20-2007, 02:49 AM,

I just ran it again, 3 type 89 and 3 type 89B versus a tankette (1 point of armour) and 3 FT 17. The type 89 bounced it's HE off the tankette at range 1 three times. The type 89B fires AP at 200 yards no problem. This time around the type 89 did fire an AP at range zero on an FT 17, but only 1 of the 3 I had.

zeiss · 10-20-2007, 03:04 AM,

Type 89 and type 89B have different guns. :P

Firing AP at 0 range worked everytime for me. Any chance that you have been drinking to much sake? ;)

Vesku · 10-20-2007, 04:45 AM,

Weasel Wrote:Never did it fire AP for me, not once. And the HE bounced off everything, even targets with 1 point of armour. Even if the tank was designed as an infantry support weapon why would the commander fire HE at an armoured target? I don't think the Japanese are that stupid to not be able to distinguish a soldier from a tank.

It is screwed.

Don't know about the game but historically it would be accurate for a tank to fire HE at enemy tanks, it was quite common for Germans to fire HE at lighter enemy armour and score kills. They tried to save AP for medium and heavy armour. Also at longer range it was easier to fire a HE to see where it lands, AP doesn't give many hints if it misses target.

Weasel · 10-20-2007, 08:05 AM,

Well from the posts here I guess I am just stupid to think that a tank would fire AP at another tank. I wonder why our Leos and Cougars were loaded with 70% AP and not just all HE?