Tips from the Frontline

[RNL Tiger]

New plan needed

Over the last few moves I have maintained radio silence, whilst trying to manoeuvre the Tigers into the rear. Given that the second tank fight was all but finished it seemed sensible to ask a few questions related to previous moves:
1) Why did you drop those T-34/85 onto the road and then backed down into the valley? As opposed to going straight into the valley?
“Reversing them was quicker than making them pivot and move”
2) Did you see my tigers and knew that they were coming - it looked like you did as you lined up the famous POS stack?
“Yes I saw the Tigs all the way, one of my units somewhere must have spotted them, maybe a loose T-34 crew on foot..”

3) I had hoped that my infantry would open up on the tank to distract it but neither the infantry nor the HMG fired i.e. distraction failed miserably
“Infantry and MG's are sometimes scared to fire at tanks at long range in case the tank shoots back”

4) Originally, why did you send the tank platoon around the right? As a flanking manoeuvre?
“If you mean the 3 T-34's that were killed early on, I was going to position them to fire across the open ground in front of the flag in case you inf tried to cross it”

5) Given you knew you were still facing three tigers and STUGs what was your armour plan - to effect an ambush as happened?
“The Tigs and Stugs are wide apart, so I planned to kill the Tigs then turn my attention to the Stugs”

6) Was your sharpshooter operating away from his HQ? Did you manoeuvre him and did he get both the StuG and Tiger TC?
“Yes. Don't worry if snipers aren't in command, they'll still shoot”
7) Presumably you knew that the tanks on the hill had some good open LOS across the centre and had placed them there to dominate?
“They were up there simply to shoot any of your inf that dared to try to approach the flag there. And it just so happened they could see your Tigs too, so I let them have a crack”

8) The area fire into the woods was random or designed to elicit a response or because you had a spot/sound contact?
“Yes a sound contact, probably your sniper so I saturated the woods with HE in the hope of nailing him, the tanks had nothing else to do at that time anyway”

So, coming back to the present, the problem I have now is how to rescue the remaining Tiger? Fortunately it helped to redress the balance of armour somewhat by knocking out two the T34s on the hill. The question now is should I just leave it there with a potential death wish against a platoon of T34s or perhaps try and retreat it and see if I can bring him back to rejoin the main forces. Of course, there is one final option and that is to try and mount a rescue mission with the STuGs.

The STuGs and infantry are starting to advance towards the flag.



However, I seem to have a problem with this action too in that I have left the centre platoon too far back. Consequently I have not got the close level of coordination that I wanted with two platoons overwhelming the defenders supported by the STuGs. I also should be using the STuGs to blast the area but they are being pinged by ATRs and so providing a distraction. “ATR's are lethal against light armour, including against tanks with light side armour, but their slug is so small it often needs a good half-dozen penetrations to kill an armoured car. In one game a guy bought literally dozens of ATR's and killed several of my Panzer IV's with side shots, but it took dozens of pens on each tank. However, ATR's are great for forcing tanks to button up,a hit won't kill most medium/heavy tanks or their commander, but a hit will force it to button, and a buttoned tank is half blind, so ATR's are useful there… Remember, my infantry can throw grenades at 40m, so if your armour stays at least 41m from any trees where they might be lurking, they can't touch you”

Finally, I also need to consider using the infantry against the remaining T34 on the hill as that is still well located to intercept any infantry advance in the centre. Time for some more questions:
1) How should I attack with infantry in woods, the tactical article in theBlitz implies close together but my infantry forces seem incredibly brittle
“Infantry are useless and can do zilch without armoured support unless you've got a huge infantry army, then you might overwhelm by numbers alone. If enemy infantry are deep in woods and can't be hit by tank fire, the only way to root them out is to send in as many infantry as you can to get them, and hope you've sent enough to do the job.”
2) Should I try and use regular infantry to attack a tank or am I wasting my time?
“Regular or veteran, it makes little difference, infantry is very fragile regardless of quality. And it depends what you mean by 'attack'. If you mean run out into open ground to get within grenade throwing range, its risky and he might see you coming and cut you down. Far better to lurk in cover waiting for tanks to come within grenade range (40m).”

3) I do not think my STuGs are well positioned, where would you put them now?
“You've got two options - Either order them to area-fire into the woods near the flag in the hope of killing or softening up my infantry preparatory to sending your infantry in to mop up, or order the Stugs to go kill my 3xT-34s in the valley and remove that thorn from your side once and for all.. In your place I think I'd attack the T-34's with the help of the Tiger, thats 4 against 3 so the odds are with you..

4) I tried to attack your flank/rear with my AFVs, it seems that I have a) made them very vulnerable b) have no element of surprise c) limited manoeuvre given that they seem to be on the wrong side of my infantry! If you were the Axis where would you have positioned these forces?
“I'd have kept the Tigers with the Stugs to form a 6-strong steamroller to saturate the woods near the flag with area fire, then sent in my infantry to grasp the flagpole. Then I'd have moved the steamroller on to the next flag and done the same there, think 'domino effect'.
Your Tigs tried a fancy flanking move but I saw them coming and was able to position my T-34s to block them. The word 'flanking' is used too much in CM, people mistakenly think the enemy is just going to sit there and let himself be outflanked! It might work if the flanker achieves total surprise, but all too often he's spotted while on route and loses the element of surprise like we just saw.”

Well, there is plenty to think about, so, the basic plan now should be to:
1) Use infantry to knockout the T34 on the hill
2) Take the flag on the left
3) Mount a rescue mission for the Tiger

[RNL Tiger]

Rescue Mission

I had decided to wait for a turn or two before mounting the rescue mission just in case the T34s went in for the kill immediately. In the meantime to occupy the STuGs I turned their attention to laying down some HE support but with one anomaly in that I don't seem to be able to say to an AFV - move there then area fire? Is there a way to achieve that? “No it can't be done”

The turn or two passes by and I asked why haven't you gone for the kill on that last Tiger? “I've lost 5 tanks so far and have only got 4 left, so I don't want to risk losing any more unless I have to....I'm winning at the moment and am therefore happy to just sit tight until the end of the game. That's another lesson - don't do anything you don't have to do..:)”

Chance is a strong element in war. Looks like you have decided to reverse your T34s at the same time as I decided to move my STuGs - the chance element coming out to play :-) I guess that means the next few minutes will be interesting to see how this plays out. If they had reversed 45 seconds later then I would have been OK. As it is I have the STuG turn time to contend with before I can even shoot! I think it is fair to say that you will shoot first! I just hope that they are not on target :-) It's pretty exciting and seems the next minute or two will be decisive for the armour battle, even if you do have a clear edge at the moment... “Yes, I miscalculated, I thought your Stugs would stay put and blast my infantry, but instead they've come looking for trouble, scuppering my plan of sneaking up on them while their backs were turned.”



My STuGs never even got a worthy shot off - clearly demonstrating their weaknesses when moving. “No turrets = no chance”

Given that my STuGs had been in trouble I had asked about how I could try and save them or generally any tank. “It sometimes pays to dive forwards behind cover instead of reverse. Reversing is fast but not as fast as Fast forward.. When a tank comes under fire, there are 3 options -standing its ground and shooting it out, diving forward behind cover, or reversing. If the tanks already moving its often best to let it carry on if there's cover ahead. Firing smoke shells to blind the enemy is not an instant solution because the smoke won't begin to blossom and take effect until near the end of the turn. And tanks under fire sometimes take steps to preserve themselves on their own initiative, like when many of mine slammed into reverse (and some slammed forward) when they saw the Tigs and Panths in Jaegermeister.
Also, most German/ Brit/ American tanks (not Russian) have smoke grenade dischargers which pop smoke just in front of them if the tank comes under serious threat, your Tiger did it in this game when he was hurt by a partial penetration, but because it took the usual time to blossom it didn't shield him from another hit which finished him off.”

However, the distraction of killing my sitting duck STuGs does open the way for the Tiger to hunt forward and hit back:



And it also gets the tank on the hill but not before that hill tank causes havoc with my infantry in the centre. I even tried to move infantry up to it in cover to try and get an infantry tank kill but cannily it was placed out of reach and anyone that showed themselves got a burst of MG for their trouble or worse an HE round. It led me to observe to POS - your tank on the hill is dominating the area! It seems that if my infantry take a burst of fire they get broken - seems like I need to try veterans, especially if I end up attacking. “You're learning just how fragile infantry are, especially in open ground, one tank can make a whole group hit the dirt in fear. Even vet/crack/elite troops are fragile. That's why tanks were invented, to help the infantry, so always support your troops with tanks backing them up.”

Meanwhile at the left flag that was supposed to be mine now:


[In the background you can see the hill tank still dominating the centre]

Whoops. I got the coordination between the STuGs and the other platoon completely wrong. Consequently, I lost an entire platoon and with it any real chance to overwhelm the defenders.

Some other activity is worth mentioning – just because I was fooled.
1) I thought the flag on your left was mine [went Axis] so decided to run a squad [2 half squads actually] to it and they got ambushed! I guess the flag markers should be taken with a pinch of salt - especially now that I have just looked at your tactical thread on it
“Yes, one player often sees the flag in his colour while at the same tiome the other guy is seeing it in HIS colour, never trust flag colours. As for that small flag, I stationed a 4-man half-squad there and he cut down your guys in the open, another lesson how fragile infantry are in open ground”

[RNL Tiger]

Coup de grace

So, the tactical situation on my left is dire; on my right it is inconsequential, the centre has stalled and my once proud armour force has been reduced to a single Tiger, trapped by two T34s. So, as General Foch at Marne said: “[My centre is giving way, my right is in retreat;] situation excellent, I shall attack.”

The key question, is what should I attack now? The battle was sliding away and I needed to score a local victory to tip the scales back in my favour. There were two key options:
1) Send the tiger to knockout the last two T34s
2) Reconnect the tiger with the infantry to take the two flags in the centre

I decided to reconnect the tiger. However, POS suggested the more aggressive and risky option 1, leading me to say that if the tiger had gone after those last two tanks he would probably have got his turret blown off. “At that range 2 versus 1 - it seems highly unlikely my tiger would survive?”

“You're behind on points and are possibly going to lose, therefore logic dictates that you must try to pull some miracles out of the bag, you've got no choice, so send the Tig to try knocking out my last 2 T-34's, you've nothing to lose because this is a non-ladder game and you needn't worry about anything, just have fun..:)”

You can’t argue with the logic. Of course, for me there is only a limited amount of fun in watching my paper tigers fall in front of the might of the T34/85. It is much more fun to blast defenceless infantry with a Tiger! However, my tiger was about to meet its Waterloo as POS prepared to administer the coup de grace to my crack tiger.

Interestingly, I wondered how he knew the quality of my remaining tank crew was crack, especially as previously tanks had been misidentified and when I had clicked on them the crew quality section was blank. “That's 'extreme fog of war' for you, its quite normal for crews to misidentify tanks, its very realistic, you see what they think they see, for example if you're Russian in a game and you see Tigers coming towards you, they might not be Tigers, just ordinary panzer IV's or whatever. All nations mis-identify like that, but after a turn or two they realise their mistake and identify it properly. TIP - If they haven't ID'd a tank yet, you can still get an idea of what it is by the sound of its gun, a crack means small calibre, a bang means medium, and a thunderous roar means something big and nasty… Extreme fog of war is the one everybody uses because it’s the most realistic.”

“Just click on a tank to see its quality, like in the picture below:


can you see the word 'Crack' at bottom left? However I can't be absolutely sure it’s correct because of the fog of war thing, but from experience I know it’s probably correct. But early in games the quality readout won't show for most enemy tanks, it only shows after the tanks have been around and under observation for a while. It's realistic, I read somewhere that tank commanders can often tell the quality of an enemy tank crew by seeing how well or how bad they operate. The only reason its important in CM is because if you know an enemy tank crew is good or bad it'll help you make decisions better, I mean if you know a crew is low-quality you might decide to risk a shootout with it.”

So, let’s go back to the trapped tiger. The T34s moved away for some reason and I used the opportunity to reconnect the tiger with the infantry in the centre. However, it became clear why the T34s had moved away, I had left a STuG as a sitting duck by the left flag. In all of the excitement of the STuG shootout and lamenting their loss I had not actually noticed that one of them had only been gun-hit and had runaway. Of course, that was simply too tempting a target for POS, who quickly dispatched it. That was a REALLY BAD mistake on my part, not paying close attention to all of the battlefield and all of the units and consequently missing an opportunity to save the STuG.

However, my Tiger was not in the centre long before a T34 came up on the left and started to attack the infantry, whilst its partner was down in the valley [see it just behind the flag]. It looked like an opportunity to knockout the T34 before the other one arrived on the scene. Time to hunt the T34…



That first T34 has started to move, now where is it going? Hold on a moment, where is that second T34 going – it looks like it is trying to get behind my tiger? I can't believe it, IT IS trying to get behind my tiger. No! Surely it cannot make it in time…



Yes it can – and did. In the last 8 seconds both T34s engaged my tiger in a pincer movement and the first shot from the T34 knocks out the tiger before it can even get a single shot off…Coup de grace administered – game over.



My message to POS: They think its all over - it is now :-) That was a very nice manoeuvre on your part and especially well timed [how did you do that - gut instinct?] to have both tanks get into LOS from two different directions at pretty much the same time. In both scenarios [tiger turns to face either tank] you would have a rear shot and you would possibly only lose one tank for the tiger or even better as happened here you get a one shot knockout! :-) Anyway, very well done - it was really nice to watch but it would have been even better if it was someone else's tiger!!! :-)

I looked at your tank in the valley and I didn't think it would get to the tiger fast enough [you only used fast commands or did you throw a hunt in for that tank - looks like fast only] so I decided to go after your "bait" relying on the crack crew in a better tank. I also assume that you deliberately drove right up to where the tiger was originally as opposed to crest the hill in hunt mode to make a harder target and also to cover the case where I decided [as I did] to move the tiger?

“Yes I wanted the 2x T-34s to arrive in position at exactly the same time (what we holy men call a coordinated attack) to sandwich the Tig in their crossfire because it couldn't fire at both of them at once..:) The T-34 on your left had less distance to cover but all his waypoints delayed his move for 20 seconds just as I'd planned, thereby giving the T-34 miles away in the valley time to climb up the road and over the hill. I used 'Fast' for both tanks because I simply wanted to plonk them in position as fast as possible, although I did add a little Hunt 'hook' to one of the T-34s.
If I'd used a lot of 'Hunt' waypoints the tanks might have stopped too close to woods as soon as they saw the Tig, and I didn't want to risk eggs come flying out of the woods. So using 'Fast' carried my boys well clear of the woods before stopping.
Like I always say - "Fight with your brain first and your weapons second".

As for deliberately delaying your units movement, there are two ways to do it - Hitting the 'P' button, or adding waypoints.(the waypoints needn't trace a zigzag path, they can all be in a straight line if you like) To begin with, estimate how much delay you want to give the unit (lets say 15 seconds). But a P will only give you 10 seconds (not enough), and another P will give 20 seconds (too much). So the solution is to give it one P (10secs), then one or two extra waypoints of 2 or 3 secs each to fine-tune the delay to 15 seconds”

The loss of my final tank has really finished the game and whilst I took the flag on the right it is clearly an Allied Victory.

[RNL Tiger]

Result

I called a ceasefire, which POS accepted. I was curious about how the score was worked out and so inevitably asked the question: “Scoring - You also get victory points from killing enemy units, based on its cost. So if we kill an expensive Tiger I get good points (I've never examined the exact amount but I'd roughly guess about 10 points), but if you kill a less-expensive T-34/85 you'd only get about 8 points. And cheaper tanks/armoured cars etc would score even less, and infantry lesser still. So approach battles with the intention of scoring for flag capture AND knocking off enemy tanks.”

There is a long article in the Battlefront forum that goes into much greater detail but at a practical level POS has summed it up: take flags and knockout/destroy expensive units, with one additional note – captured units count for double. Given that research, along with the fact that POS could reasonably have expected me to surrender [and so gain more victory points] and because I was curious as to how that would change the result I post both results:



The difference is because:
1) I would surrender the small flag that I had captured
2) I would surrender my remaining infantry forces, around 3 platoons, who as captured forces count as double their normal points

[RNL Tiger]

Observations

In chess, you learn a great deal from annotating your games and playing through the annotated games of grandmasters. Of course, there is a significant knowing / doing gap. Just because I can read about what Grandmasters do and how they do it that does not mean that I can do it! However, the key point is to try and learn from mistakes, both yours and other peoples. So, what went right and what went wrong. In the email correspondence with POS:

Let me run through some of my main mistakes here - please add any I've missed! :-)
a) Split infantry forces across a wide front - should have gone for that "domino effect"
“You attacked the flag on your left with a powerful tank force, slaughtering my 3x T-34's there, that was good. But then you diverted your Tigs in a flank move instead of keeping them near the Stugs so you could blast my infantry at the flag and quickly take it.”

b) Split the tigers from the STuGs and then attacked without knowing where your second tank platoon was
“Yes it helps to know where the enemy is”

c) Focused too much on winning the armour battle and did not use armour to support the infantry
“Yes, you should have quickly and decisively steamrollered the flag after wiping out my T-34 platoon because my inf there were at your mercy without armour to back them up. But by not steamrolling you gave me precious time to hurl another T-34 across to that sector to act as a thorn in your side.”

Purchasing screen
a) Chose Tigers that are not well suited to this terrain
“Yes, they're best on open maps at long range. In Aug 1944 Tigs are not the invulnerable beasts they once were because the T-34/85 can adequately take them on at shorter ranges, so Panzer IV-longs are almost as good and much cheaper which means you can buy more of them (and they can easily penetrate 34/85's)”

b) Chose STuGs that are less flexible in this terrain than tanks because they are turret less
“Yes, Stugs are temptingly cheaper than tanks, but if enemy tanks can hit them in the side or rear they're dead ducks because it takes them 50 years to pivot to bring their gun to bear. Sometimes if I've got enough points left to buy something, I might buy a Stug or two, but I wouldn't buy too many”

c) Not happy with regular infantry but from the sound of it there is little point in paying more for veterans
“Right, I've tried vets/cracks/elites from time to time but I simply couldn't see much difference in performance, so I usually just buy Regs nowadays, with maybe the odd vet platoon or two thrown in.. However as regards support units, I always buy the best quality snipers and shreks/piats/bazookas available because they tend to do a lot better than low-quality forces”

What went well? There were a number of things that worked:
• Initial deployment of forces, including the left flank being turned by a platoon
• Deploying the tigers on left and winning the first tank fight
• Sharpshooter killed two tank commanders
• Massed armour on left flank

So, what about transforming these and other observations into steps for improvement:
• Armour – must be selected to match its strengths and weaknesses to the battle conditions, especially the terrain and weather. Exploit the armour fully in both its key functions during a meeting engagement: knocking out enemy armour and blasting the enemy infantry. In using armour to attack enemy armour try to determine where all of the enemy armour is to prevent unwanted surprises
• Infantry – mass sufficient infantry firepower to attack a single point and win the fire-fight, usually a 2-1 or greater advantage is needed. Spreading the infantry too thinly across the map means that they are tactically dispersed and consequently weaker. It is also harder to manoeuvre them into new positions once the engagement has started, which makes their initial deployment and movement all the more important
• Tactics – test any changes to the plan by asking why is the plan being changed and is it better than the original plan. As in chess, any move has its strengths and weaknesses is the balance right. Flanking moves that are made with surprise in mind must be especially tested because if the movement is observed then there is no surprise. Achieving coordination between infantry units and between infantry and armour is difficult. Take time to prepare the engagement by getting into the right positions and to get the timing right about when to initiate the fight. Without that preparation the attack is more likely to be piecemeal and defeated in detail
• Miscellaneous - always check the battlefield carefully for spotted enemy units and results of engagements, there may be units that can be saved or redeployed. If needed, test the armour or a unit’s expected performance in the Scenario Editor

Well, that engagement has finished; learnt some lessons; so now it is time to enter the cauldron of war again.

[RNL Tiger]

Thanks - Der Kuenstler and McIvan - for the positive replies in this thread. It is nice to know that the time and effort is appreciated and rewarded. Also, thanks to the person who awarded this thread 5 gold stars - very nice.

[Feldfebel]

Very good read. Just like you I was quick to jump on the elite players here - played one battle with Der Kuenstler and left with a bloody nose and few missing teeth but also valuable experience.
Have fun while learning from your misstakes!

[Bubonicus]

Good work, and nice of you to share it!

[RNL Tiger]

More Tips from the Frontline

Introduction
This second quick battle with PoorOldSpike [POS] is a 2000 point meeting engagement on a medium map in 1944. I have decided to keep it with the first “Tips from the Frontline” because the intent is the same, the style is similar and the material adds to the original AAR.

There are fewer basic questions as I know a little more; so now the battle takes on more of a more chess like nature with move and countermove. However, as a reasonable chess player myself, it is considerably harder than chess because:
a) You have limited or no information about the opposing force
b) You are operating in the fog of war and so can be surprised by the sudden appearance of enemy forces
c) The tactical manoeuvres [moves] than can be made by the forces are more varied and complex than chess pieces
d) There are many more options for combined arms and then coordinating that force

As before, POS’s comments will be quoted in a different colour.

[RNL Tiger]

Purchase and Setup Phase

The map contains a village, small hills and moderate tree cover; it is mid-1944, so for the force selection I decided to go a little armour heavy and purchased:
• 1 Platoon of IS-2 heavy tanks [2 in total]
• 2 Platoons of T-34/85 medium tanks [6 in total]
• 1 x SU-76M, self propelled artillery
• 1 x Company of Volksgrenadiers
• 2 x Maxim machine guns; 2 x sharpshooters; 1 x 82mm mortar
I am hoping that the Stalin tanks will tip the balance of the armour battle in my favour. The problem with this selection is that the infantry is a little light but I want to compensate for that by using more HE, mortar and machine gun fire to soften up defenses. Time will tell if the balance is OK.

The map itself shows that both the Allies and Axis have a straight line into the village, where there is a small flag and a large flag. Just outside the village is another large flag.



The basic plan is to place forces at each of the yellow markers:
1) Assemble the armour at “1” for a run into the village. Given what POS has said previously it is highly likely [guaranteed!] that he will rush to the flag
2) Move one infantry platoon each to “2”, “3” and “4”
3) Place the artillery support at “5” to assist the infantry in taking the outside of the village flag

Once the forces are in place the attack should move from right to left with the assault starting with preparatory artillery fire. The infantry platoon at “3” will reinforce “4” if needed and then both platoons at “3” and “4” will attack the centre flag together.

The key question is how will the armour battle unfold? It is likely that the armour battle may be decided early because if POS is true to form he will use the road to get into the village too. So, I decide to go all in, determined to win the tank shoot-out and placing confidence in the two Stalin tanks. I am also hoping that POS will split his armour into two with one going into the village and the other towards the flag outside of the village. Whilst I can hope, frankly, I expect him to place all of his armour on the road and that is why I think the armour battle will be decided early. We shall see…