Interesting tank crew and points discovery...

[Der Kuenstler]

This is copied from my other thread "keep moving" as deemed worthy of its own thread:

Here is my test:

I made a tiny scenario in the editor. I put a regular PzIVG out in the open presenting his side to a 57mm AT Gun hidden in some nearby woods. Accompanying the AT gun are two maxims and and SG43 mmg with short cover arcs. (I put a couple of German bunkers out of the action so the scenario wouldn't end as soon as the tank died.)

I then killed the tank several times and called a ceasefire, looking at the final results score each time.

When all five of the crew get out alive, the final score for the Allies is 140 (the exact cost of this tank in the editor without rarity)

I then ran the test again and when all five crew got out alive, I took the cover arcs off the mgs and machinegunned them all. After ceasefire the final score was 172 - that's 32 more points. Now imagine if your opponent was ruthless and took the time to hunt down and kill every crewmember you had on the field - in a big battle that could easily approach the cost of a 300 point flag.

In another test when only two crewmembers crawled out alive, the final ceasefire score was 159 - so the Russkies got 19 points because the other three German crewmembers burned up in the tank.

When two crewmembers died in the tank and three crawled out, the Russkies got 153 points, or 13 extra points for that. So the computer is definitely keeping track of each crewmember - although it seems to be a strange number of points (6.5 per man?) - not sure about that. This is a regular crew - I'm assuming vet and crack crews would garner even more points per man.

Here's the amazing thing - When the Russkies blew up the tank and instantly killed all the crew inside, and none crawled out, the final score went back to 140! So you actually get more points for letting the crew crawl out and shooting them than blowing the whole tank up!

[Colonel Talvela]

This makes me wonder if mortar/guns crews act the same way. I would guess they do (and yes, I am too lazy to test).

[kineas]

Yes, it's a bug. If a crew get killed entirely in the vehicle you get no casualty points, the kill is not even registered.

[Colonel Talvela]

Kineas, that isnt a bug. that is the design. Which makes sense IMO. Basically if you kill the crew in the tank you get 100% of the points for the tank kill. If the crew bails, it creates a new unit, ie it creates more points.

[Colonel Talvela]

I have also been curious about whether plat/company/battalion discounts affect casualty points. In othe words, if you kill an independent platoon of inf do you get the same number of points as killing a platoon that was purchased as part of a company/battalion. I would hope casualty points would be the same.

[kineas]

Sorry, I see no reason why you get more points if one crew member survives...also, the kill stat is wrong for a 'total KO', as if the crew never existed.

[Der Kuenstler]

Here's one response to my same post at Battlefront about it:

"The crew members don't exist as a separate unit until the vehicle is abandoned, at which point the program spawns an infantry unit - the crew - if it determines any crew survived the vehicle's destruction.

Each unit is worth points, so indeed a crew can score you points in addition to the points for the vehicle.

There are specific cases in which this doesn't make sense, but in general it's a good system."

[Colonel Talvela]

Sorry, I see no reason why you get more points if one crew member survives...also, the kill stat is wrong for a 'total KO', as if the crew never existed.

That is because if there is a 'total KO' the 'crew' doesnt exist.

[Der Kuenstler]

More tests today:

Mortar crews work the same way as tanks. I bought a regular German 81mm mortar and machinegunned it in the open, called ceasefire and observed the results. When the whole team was killed before abandoning the mortar, the Russians got 33 casualty points - the exact cost of the mortar without rarity. When the mortar was abandoned and the crew was spawned, and then all gunned down, the Russians got 71 points! That is a gain of 38 points - more gain than the mortar and crew together cost originally.

Interesting note: even when one man is left alive on the mortar and he abandons it, and is then killed, then the Russians get points for the whole team getting killed. Spawning the team is the essential thing.

Confirmed: Crack crews are worth more. Gunning down a crack 81mm mortar and its spawned crew gave me 94 points. (+50 over the cost of the mortar!)

MG42 Heavy MG: these guys never abandon their mg - to the last man they hold on, so their score is counted per man killed.

Reg 88mm Flak: This cost me 107 points in the editor. When I knocked it out it spawned a crew. Two were then killed. The result gave me 120 points (the gun cost +13 - 6.5 points per crewmember)

Battalion Rifle '41 squad (21 points) vs separate Rifle '41 platoon squad (29 points): We know we get a discount by buying infantry in Battalion size, but how does the computer score them afterwards? I gunned down each kind separately and looked at the final score and the answer is, the Russians got 29 points for each. This test was also done with a Battalion bought HMG (18 points) and an individually bought HMG (29 points) with the same result - the compute gave the Russians 29 points for killing each of them. So the bulk buying discount is just that, a buying discount only, and does not effect the final scoring.

[kineas]

Sorry, I see no reason why you get more points if one crew member survives...also, the kill stat is wrong for a 'total KO', as if the crew never existed.

That is because if there is a 'total KO' the 'crew' doesnt exist.

I meant the design reason, not the cause.