German Div HQ ranges in Smolensk?

[Mr Grumpy]

Not sure if anybody other than Rick or Glenn can answer this, but does anyone know the reason behind the German Div HQ's command ranges in Smolensk being so short at 10 hex's? :chin:

It sure makes Blitzkrieg tactics difficult to replicate! :(

[Dog Soldier]

I think the pupose was to simulate the divisions working off on their own. A large command range would preclude the German player in S41 from having to even consider the problems in detaching a panzer division to go smashing around the Russian flanks.
The new rules concerning artillery effectiveness and detached units will curb some of the most flagrant Axis abuses of power in S41, making this title a much more fun game for the Russian player.

For the most part S41 is a corps level game. Keep your corps, Axis or Russian together and you will fair better than if you do not.

I also highly recommend the VST rule in any CG of S41. Even in the medium scenarios, the VST rule keeps the Axis player honest. The further away form the main arteries into the hinterland the Germans go to spread the Russian defense, the better simulation of the logistics trade off of keeping such Axis forces at optimal combat effectiveness.
There are several key area where rivers must be crossed. Without a logistics rule like VST the Germans can do some very weird things to cross the rivers as if they were no obstacle at all.
I do not know why there is not a supply point in Smoensk proper. Historically the city fell rather easily, though the Russians fought tough for the vodka factory! I would have thought the city, if surrounded or bypassed was prepared to hold out like Mogliev did.

Dog Soldier

[Ricky B]

Good point on the vodka factory, Dog Soldier! Kind of like the discussion of the pubs in the UK, but different too :-).

Foul, as to the command ranges, I have no idea of the basis, but would assume that it is based on historical usage of divisions, and capabilities, at this point in the war. It makes the HQ placement critical to assisting the key points on attack/defense.

Rick

[Mr Grumpy]

Thanks Brian very interesting reply..:chin:

The short command range certainly does stop the German player throwing his units all round the map, but 10 hex's does have a very restrictive feel and i think maybe 15 would have been better, just my opinion after playing quite a few moves of the xp2 CG. :)

I can see how the VST rule could have a big effect on play with all this bad ground, i was going to use this rule but was out voted in the negotiations at the start of the game

[Mr Grumpy]

I do not know why there is not a supply point in Smoensk proper. Historically the city fell rather easily, though the Russians fought tough for the vodka factory! I would have thought the city, if surrounded or bypassed was prepared to hold out like Mogliev did.

Dog Soldier

I would like to see a "beserk" rule in PzC like we had in Squad Leader to represent these strange events, as Rick said a squad of Home Guard defending the Dog and Duck pub could hold out for ages against whole Panzer Divs! :rolleyes: :whis:

[Liebchen]

Don't forget that the 10 hex range is not an absolute limitation, but merely the range at which the command and control features are at 50% effectiveness. Units can stray beyond that 10 hex range, but just face a higher risk of losing command and control if they do.

[Dog Soldier]

Liebchen,

You are correct. What we were discussing was the length of that leash. It is better to keep your troops in command range as this is no small matter in a balanced scenario. Upon reflection, I am wondering if the restrictive terrain had something with reducing the HQ command range in this title compared to the command ranges in T41. The desert does allow for easier radio communications.
Russia, near Smolensk, unlike the desert has a lot more trees. :whis:

As to the city of Smolensk, I think it was the factory grounds that mattered more than the vodka. I have read the factory was much like the ones the Germans would encounter a year later at Stalingrad. Just a smaller scale.

Maybe Glenn would consider upgrading the map for that hex to industrial with the extra percentage to protect the defenders. I do not think that terrain type was considered when S41 came out.

Dog Soldier

[Glenn Saunders]

Not sure if anybody other than Rick or Glenn can answer this, but does anyone know the reason behind the German Div HQ's command ranges in Smolensk being so short at 10 hex's? :chin:

It sure makes Blitzkrieg tactics difficult to replicate! :(

These values were established by Greg Smth and nfact S41 had mastered before I got involved with John Tiller at HPS - Blackie and I were inthe Talonsoft world then finishing up Rising Sun.

One thing about Sturmer Smith - the man is rather firm on anything he does for the game so I am not in the position to change those values.

However I don't think it prohibits Blitzkrieg - I think you just need to keep you HQ near the site of the trop concentration and breathrough point.

Glenn

[Glenn Saunders]

I can see how the VST rule could have a big effect on play with all this bad ground, i was going to use this rule but was out voted in the negotiations at the start of the game

From my own POV VST Supply is almost always the way to go with Exp Supply used for specific games like MG44 and Alamain.

However VST didn't come around until S41 v1.6 so the original game with Sturms original OOBs were tested using the basic supply rules.

Glenn

[Glenn Saunders]

I would like to see a "beserk" rule in PzC like we had in Squad Leader to represent these strange events, :

"beserk" rules for a SQUAD game is one thing but I can't recall ever hearing or reading about an entire Russian Btln going NUTS. It just doesn't ft at this scale.

Glenn