Here is a Stalingrad 42 question

[Dog Soldier]

If the Germans had fuel problems and could not move their formations around so readily why not just FIX some of them in place for a day or so. This might just delay the mass concentration of German power long enuf for the Soviets to hold on to the initiative.

Not a bad idea. Timing of releases is tricky for a designer when going away from historical information like this. Then it could be the Russians who take advantage of Axis fixed units. IMHO, better to limit the Axis mobility by low fuel or low ammo or both to drop the morale rating enough so they are slow in moving. A higher break down value would be ideal. Unfortunately that idea would affect the relief forces the same way, not a good thing.

If you want to tinker with the releases en mass of the northern Red Armies, setting them up out of sight would work to prevent early releases. The Axis player would have to worry about a Russians' reaction to a northern thrust. I am sure if the Germans had tried to threaten the supply of the forces which crossed the Don in this way, the Soviets would not have blindly followed history, but would have adapted to the threat. Leave a few recon elements unfixed in the Russian northern armies to check and see if the Germans are still there...

Dog Soldier

[Glenn Saunders]

Yeah you could tinker with the 24th and 66th Army setup and 'T' tag and come up with a fix for the scenario I am sure. That is my point, it needs a fix. Unless your German opponent agrees not to use this ploy, as Rev has kindly agreed too :)

My concern with the T tag is an innocent German player might unleash these troops even sooner than they we ready to attack (or actually their).

The other thing is that when you use T tag with the Release commands at the ARMY level, minor issues can release an awful lot of units. If you use less than Army level you run the risk of not releasing some divsions (or usually a Corps|Army asset), thus creating another problem

I guess where I was at on this was that I didn't think the Germans would attack in this sector as they are strategically on the defense.

Glenn

[Marquo]

It is fascinating how different players view the same strategic situations. I read many accounts of the battle and helped play test accordingly, so I am struck by this thread. I never thought that the Axis would dare move out of the trench line and attack to the north, because my Soviet attack from the south was hard enough to stop. Any thinning of the Axis forces needed to stop the southern pincer would only lead to enveloping Stalingrad from the south (I was shuttling PzDs to the south and north for bare survival).

When I have some time I would like to play an Axis player who adopts such a strategy, because I think as the Soviet I can run over the southern flank handily if the Axis player gets too adventurous in the north.

Marquo

[Rev Rico]

My concern with the T tag is an innocent German player might unleash these troops even sooner than they we ready to attack (or actually their).
The other thing is that when you use T tag with the Release commands at the ARMY level, minor issues can release an awful lot of units. If you use less than Army level you run the risk of not releasing some divsions (or usually a Corps|Army asset), thus creating another problem

Exactly. That's why I suggested T RELEASE for indiv formations and spreading out the rear Rifle Divs.

Bob

[Krak]

The first time I played Axis the thought of attacking north of Stalingrad crossed my mind. I then dismissed it becasue I assumed that the formations would release when attacked. When Bob attacked me up there I soon found otherwise.

One of the beauties of this CG is the numerous strategic options available for both sides. I am always facinated by the different styles of play and strategies employed by my opponents. I never fail to learn something new from the people I play.

[Rev Rico]

It is fascinating how different players view the same strategic situations. I read many accounts of the battle and helped play test accordingly, so I am struck by this thread. I never thought that the Axis would dare move out of the trench line and attack to the north, because my Soviet attack from the south was hard enough to stop. Any thinning of the Axis forces needed to stop the southern pincer would only lead to enveloping Stalingrad from the south (I was shuttling PzDs to the south and north for bare survival).

When I have some time I would like to play an Axis player who adopts such a strategy, because I think as the Soviet I can run over the southern flank handily if the Axis player gets too adventurous in the north.

Marquo

Marquo,

What I did against Krak was
1. Use the 1st day to re-deploy and take northernmost Stalingrad VP hex.
2. The VIII Corps & XIV PzKorps (reinforced with 16 PzDiv, LI Korps artillery, & any Army Troops) attack northward in a pincer around Samofaloka.
3. 94th Inf Div replaces 3 Mot.Inf in north
4. 24th & 14th PzDiv go south to meet southern attack with 29th Mot.Div.
The northern attack was very successful and would have easily bagged many Russian Divs. Then one by one it would engulf the FIXED Rifle Divs before proceeding on to the mobile forces in the rear. I had Nov 20-23 (almost 4 days) to do it before they would be released. I hoped that in the long run the results = northern threat eliminated & lots of Russian losses - would be worth the risk = fatigued divisions & no reinforcement of other sectors. But we never saw what would have happened as we agreed to re-start w/o doing that strategy.

Just my thoughts
Bob

[Marquo]

For as long as I have played PzC, the issue of release is still murky. I do not know why in some cases the entire formation will release simply if one unit is spotted, and in other cases, the release is only very piecemeal even if units of a formation are fired upon.

Marquo

[von Nev]

As another playtester of Stalingrad and somebody who has played a campaign as the Germans, I think in any strategy by the Germans they are hardpressed to win the campaign over the long run. The Russian numerical advantage in arty and infantry is just too great. If somebody has finished a campaign (i.e. to the last turn) and would like to share the results I would like to see the final turn.

I also honestly feel that knowingly attacking a bunch of fixed units and "nibbling" them off bite-by-bite is borderline gamey. By this I mean that the player is taking advantage of known setup limitations not using their skills to outplay an opponent. This problem existed also in the stock Kursk campaign where German players would "scoot" around behind Russian lines purposely avoiding unfixing Russian units and moving entire army level axis of attacks to areas where the Russian line was fixed.

[Glenn Saunders]

For as long as I have played PzC, the issue of release is still murky. I do not know why in some cases the entire formation will release simply if one unit is spotted, and in other cases, the release is only very piecemeal even if units of a formation are fired upon.

Marquo

Marquo:

Help from the Release dialog may help clear this up for you.

"The Release Dialog displays a list of the Fixed unit releases in the current scenario. Each release shows a time, date, probability that the release will occur on that time and date, and the organization the release applies to. When the probability is followed by the letter T, it indicates that the release can also be triggered whenever a unit in the specified organization becomes Spotted."

So when units are spotted they are released. But when the formation is triggered - then spotting one unit of the formation releases the entire formation, which is why I didn't use the TRIGGER Flag on the two Soviet Armies that brought on this discussion.

Nor did I do a number of smaller releases for sub units of the formation because a) this was not a place where I expected action in the early going, b) to do the releases that way could have introduced new problems and c) adding many releases could be potenially confusing in the command report.

Glenn

[crsutton]

Whoa! I have been away since starting this thread "over a year ago" and it is still going strong. I really got to check in here more often. Do I win a free game or something for starting a thread that has so many posts on it?

OK now, the show is over everyone. Now step away from my thread and nobody will get hurt. No really, shooo! Get away! Find your own thread....This one is mine-all mine Bwaaaahaaaaahaaaaa!

By the way, I won the game as the Russians. My German opponent conceeded after I closed the airports. IMHO, only the poorest Russian player can lose this one. If I were to play it again, I would insist on the German SS reinforcment version. That would force the Russians to use covering forces to block the outer perimeter, and give the Germans a real (but still tough)chance of breaking through.

It is a great game though. I highly recommend the campaign.