Engineer retreat and minefield disaster!

**Mr Grumpy** · 04-03-2008, 07:44 AM,

Just a warning to all you PzC players who thought (like me) a Engineer unit could retreat into a minefield hex, IT CAN'T ! :hissy:

I have always known that a "normal" unit could not, but thought a Eng could, oh well you live & learn.....:rolleyes: ;)

Sgt Fury · 04-03-2008, 07:48 AM,

I feel your pain. I also learned a while back that units in travel mode do not retreat across a bridge :-(

Fury

Tide1 · (This post was last modified: 04-03-2008, 07:52 AM by Tide1.)

what you mean they can't Eek

oh you mean when they are being fired on?

**Ricky B** · 04-03-2008, 08:15 AM,

Actually when they are assaulted and disrupted, Foul is talking about. My glorious Italian Army, fighting in VM's Compass Campaign, trapped some Commonwealth engineers, disrupted, against a minefield and they were wiped out to a man. A minor victory against the British Empire. But we were both surprised that they couldn't retreat when I assaulted.

And I thought assaulted units in travel mode would retreat across a hexside bridge also, if there was nothing else blocking the retreat!? Didn't realize that was not possible, I have wasted a few units by putting them into travel mode then, I just thought I had some retreat, but maybe it was while broken and fire chased them back then.

Rick

Tide1 · 04-03-2008, 08:26 AM,

It happened to me also Rick I backed some infantry up to the wire thinking they would go into it......They didn't :(

Gary

**Mr Grumpy** · 04-03-2008, 08:48 AM,

Ricky B Wrote:Actually when they are assaulted and disrupted, Foul is talking about. My glorious Italian Army, fighting in VM's Compass Campaign, trapped some Commonwealth engineers, disrupted, against a minefield and they were wiped out to a man. A minor victory against the British Empire. But we were both surprised that they couldn't retreat when I assaulted.

Rick

And the Chianti did flow............. cheers

**Mr Grumpy** · 04-03-2008, 08:51 AM,

tide1 Wrote:It happened to me also Rick I backed some infantry up to the wire thinking they would go into it......They didn't :(

Gary

Gramps, i knew "normal" units could not retreat into a minefield, but something in my brain told me Engineer would?? :whis: :rolleyes:

O'Conner would not be very proud of me.......:eek1:

Dog Soldier · 04-03-2008, 04:32 PM,

It makes sense that any unit, even an engineer would not retreat into a minefield. Engineers enter minefields to clear lanes or remove the mines do so on a purposeful manner. During a retreat after assault, I can not see the unit being that organized. Entering the minefield would be just as disastrous as surrendering.

The no retreat over a bridge in travel mode when assaulted seems wrong. I am pretty sure I have seen troops cross the bridge in this case. One has to be careful and watch the road stacking limits. Any unit or stack over that limit will not move. If the other end of the bridge has a unit in it, that could prevent the retreating unit(s) from crossing if the road stacking limit would be exceeded.

Dog Soldier

Volcano Man · (This post was last modified: 04-04-2008, 06:16 AM by Volcano Man.)

I agree with Dog Soldier in the sense that a retreating engineer would not move purposefully into a minefield just as it does when you tell it to clear a lane. However, I think that all units should be able to retreat into a minefield except that all units that do this would immediately suffer from a minefield attack, engineer or not (since they are not moving in to clear a lane). This would allow the unit to escape but it would cause additional casualties, and this could be particularly deadly for those 3x minefield retreats. All units should also be able to retreat into an obstacle hex as well (but I thought they could do that already?)

The benefit of the doubt should always go to the retreating units I think and more exceptions should be made to protect them like this. A unit being wiped off the map is too much of a drastic effect. In some cases I have seen a campaign be ruined because of a single turn of questionable retreats (or questionable lack of retreats) causing units to be wiped out and irreversible holes opened.

JonS1 · 04-04-2008, 06:47 AM,

But the player can chose to move (ie, 'order') his own units onto the minefield on his next turn, no?

Frankly, I think that most units left to their own devices (ie, in lieu of 'orders'), and forced into such a tactically disadvantageous position (ie, backed up against a minefield and attacked sufficiently heavily to be disrupted and forced to retreat) would surrender in droves (ie, the large losses people are seeing).

Moral of the story? Rather than blaming the game, don't let your units get into such awful tactical positions.