tanks

[McIvan]

Yeah it reduces ROF still further. And of course a one man turret like a T70 means a turret commander casualty renders the tank incapable of firing the turret weapons at all.

Another thing buttoning does is reduce the ability of the tank to maintain a target track on infantry. It will normally keep shooting at another vehicle, but it can much more easily lose sight of infantry, especially in cover.

[Colonel Talvela]

Another thing buttoning does is reduce the ability of the tank to maintain a target track on infantry.

yet another thing I never knew

[herroberst]

The game models hulldown but what your T-34s faced was the fact that hulldown they showed their historical early thinner turret armor so the Stug was able to destroy them all. Ironically, if they were not hull down the Stug would also fire at the thicker hull armor increasing their chances.

[Weasel]

Ok, couple of obs then:

I am an ex zipper-head trained as a driver and gunner. Yes, being buttoned up makes it harder to spot new targets (mostly infantry not vehicle if to your front facing) but we never had any trouble tracking a target once registered unless it went into dead ground.

Tanks on hills should be much harder to hit as only their gun and very top of turret is showing. I checked from the stugs POV and indeed that is all that could be seen of my T34s on the hill; so that was wonderful shooting on his part. As for my T34s, they never came close to hitting the stug (btw - the germans were green and my reds were regular) and if they did it should have been a top hit.

[Maakt Droog]

Would have thought the Russians benefiting from the curved front turret armor along with the height advantage; a few ricochets -n- such. :chin:

[RedDevil]

Actually it would depend on the ranges of your engagement Chris, as to where the shells would have hit. At closer ranges the trajectory of anything is rather flat as it has no time to arc like a rainbow and thus randomly hit the top. The relative angle of the top, compared to your position would most likely result in a skipped shell as well.

Also, Most gunners aim for the largest portion of the target to ensure a hit. The top is simply not a reasonable target as you're not shooting a mortar shell, and you trying to plop a high velocity round on top of something, rather than into it, are pretty slim.

There was a trick to use when you wanted the reds to target the 80mm front hull of your PanzerIV rather than focus on the little 50mm thick turret, and that was simply move out of Hull down position. Chance you take, but in most cases it would result in a bounced hull hit, rather than a turret penetration.
I don't have any scientific data proving this :) but it sure worked for me more times than I can remember.

[Mike Abberton]

The game also models the various types of optics, with the Allies generally limited to good and terrible optics, while the Germans have all sorts of options. I think the long-barrel StuGs had pretty good optics.

Regarding buttoned/unbuttoned tracking and spotting, the tank has a much better chance of spotting (and track I assume) if it has a cupola installed. I know some of the early war tanks do not have a cupola.

[RedDevil]

Would have thought the Russians benefiting from the curved front turret armor along with the height advantage; a few ricochets -n- such. :chin:

In this case, the mantlet is actually not so curved in relation to the shooter's position. It's more or so direct, in terms of trajectory and striking angle

BTW:
Most front turret penetrations are thru the gun mantlet or ricochets driving down into the hull. The curved aspect deflects most rounds, but sometimes in the wrong direction, resulting in the gunner/loader getting his leg ripped off by a shell that went south instead of north.
Early German Panther Models were notorious for this shot trap.

Gun mantlets are sometimes not as thick as the turret armor nor as curved and usually a hit on them might knockout the recoil springs, aiming reticles or leveling systems rendering the gun useless and causing a bail out or retreat.
A shell going thru them has a direct line to turret ammo stored behind the gun breech as well.. pretty nasty situation to be in for any tanker.

[Colonel Talvela]

I checked from the stugs POV and indeed that is all that could be seen of my T34s on the hill; so that was wonderful shooting on his part. As for my T34s, they never came close to hitting the stug (btw - the germans were green and my reds were regular)

What range was that at. 4 shots & 4 hits on different targets by a green stug at a range where the 4 regular T34s wouldnt get a hit at all would be a very rare occurance, IMO.

[Weasel]

Actually it would depend on the ranges of your engagement Chris

The top is simply not a reasonable target

range was about 850m

Top is what my T34s could see of him, he was that far below me; his barrel was raised quite a bit so it was an easy top shot. In my gunner days we would have been howling if a target presented itself to us like that...WOOOT!!!