Capturing HQs

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

All I recall is if an inf co was providing local support to an HQ, it was a co detached from one of the line bns, not a whole separate co belonging to the hq itself.

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

HQs and arty should not be holding a front line position unless it is because the enemy broke thru and caught them. I understand about situations like in Clervaux (Bulge), but the guys that were rounded up and sent out were mostly clerks, cooks etc....IMO at best a quality E unit because of a lack of cohesiveness and inf training. If the game allowed one to detach a 100 man E or F quality unit to hold a crossroads or something, fine as long as that HQ or arty unit is reduced by said number and all they are equipped with are rifles, grenades and maybe a few bazookas, nothing heavy. Generally rear echelon troops were inclined to advance to the rear faster than the enemy. I am sure there are exceptions, but I'd bet very few. So holding an extended front line with HQ or arty so your front line troops can get away and maybe rest is unrealistic and gamey I think.

[Glenn Saunders]

HQs are immortal, right? If you eliminate them they come back disrupted, in lesser strength with lower morale, but they do , nontheless, always return to the enemy no matter how many times you destroy them.

I just wanted to jump in and qualify the above info. Yes, it is correct, but it is missing a key piece of info.

If an A level HQ is deleted, the above is pretty much true.
If a B level HQ is deleted than a die is rolled and a result of 1-5 bring the HQ back, at a place picked by the game
If a C ... ect ect a result of 1-4 bring the HQ back,
If a D ... ect ect a result of 1-3 bring the HQ back,
ect ect.

...so figure there is a good chance the unit if it is average, will be delayed.

Secondly when it is positioned it might not be where you need it and you may need to first move it somewhere and then, finally which you have no HQ, all the units of the formation will fail their command test ... and you can read in the doc what that impacts.

So losing your HQ is not a good thing and something you should just plan on doing regularly.

Also - HQs don;t work great for holding the line either as they don't have ZOCs. We did this to help prevent gamey play.

Glenn

[Liebchen]

If you can capture an enemy HQ in reality, don't you in essence surround them and prevent them from getting away?

What you are describing is, indeed, "surrounding" and not "capturing" because the HQ unit in question is still a cohesive unit complete with arms (if not the training and experience to use them effectively).

"Capturing" would entail the captors' disbanding the unit. Since much of the combat losses in the game represent surrendered, fleeing, or lost combatants (and not necessarily dead ones), then elimination of the HQ unit is really the only good simulation of capturing it.

[Dog Soldier]

Krak,
Sticking the A morale Army or corps HQ in a front line bunker to bolster the defense of lower non-vehicle unit in the hex, seems really desperate to me. At that point I would be winning the scenario so much, this tactic would make no difference.

If ever I saw this in a game, there are much more effective ways to deal with the situation than assault the hex. But let us consider I was feeling stubborn to just assault the hex anyway. I would use at least 1,000 men, all from the same division. One or two bangs on the bunker door and the position would still fall.

As to the comment about HQ's further up the chain of command being worth more victory points, this seems a good idea if you only play the Germans in pre-1943 scenarios. As the Russians in S41, and K42 I have often had to order the HQ staff of a dead organization, including Army level, to face the KGB ride to Moscow or die with full honors on the front lines. To their credit, my Russian generals have always chosen the latter. But would they really be worth as much if I bagged Manstien in S41 or Paulus in K42? I think not! Well maybe as much as Paulus.....

Dog Soldier