Time Scale

[K K Rossokolski]

I find the term "lathered up" neither appealing nor accurate. And the implication in your first sentence that all my posts "missed the point" is personally demeaning.

[Osiris]

HI All

So bridges can be laid in 1 turn..thats insane! and how long does it take to put down a minefield? probably a turn.

So here we go..Im so happy I kept all the original designer notes from Avalon hill

B class bridges (trucks only) require 10 turns and 2 engineer platoons to sit in adjacent hexes for all of those 10 turns..thats 1 hour to get that bridge built..

J class bridges (tanks) require 15 turns and 4 engineer platoons to sit adjeacent to the bridge..thats 90 minutes of real time..

The only bridges that can be laid faster are specialized armored units called bridge layers..they would take about a turn or 2.

Minefields can be placed by 1 engineer unit in 16 turns, 2 engineer platoons in 8 turns and 4 engineers platoons in 4 turns..

Now thats reality!

I think I should send the original design manual to Matrix and company.

osiris

[Afro Thunder]

Of course, the other thing we have to consider is the speed of infantry units. Is it reasonable for a non-double-timing rifle platoon to move 4 hexes (1 km) up a paved road in 6 minutes? If you do the math, that works out to a speed of 10 km/hr, or 6.2 mph. Remember, this is for an infantry unit, that's not moving at double-time. I would conclude that 6 minutes per turn is definitely too small a number.

[Osiris]

HI

It is very unlikely that infantry can cover a 1000m in 6 minutes.. That kills the 6 minute idea right there..I cant even run a mile in 6 minutes and Im in pretty good shape..hehehehe!! I cant imagine doing it with a rifle and ammo and grenades...maybe I should go to the gym more.. The original set up was infantry moves 1 hex per turn which actually is a bit slow and 2 hexes on double time is probably right..

That being said Id rather have the infantry move a bit faster and since 1 hex per turn is slow and the game would be somewhat less fun..However once in combat infantry does not move much more than a hex so I think its fine as it is..I think what would help the game is if the infantry were to suffer fatigue (F) or better yet maybe dispersal for 1 turn.. if they move more than 2-3 hexes per turn..I think that could be built into the game

Of course another option is to leave it as it is and simply consider that a turn represents somewhere around 10-15 minutes..When I design scenarios its all based on 15 minutes per turn anyway.

Osiris

[Herr Straße Laufer]

I find the term "lathered up" neither appealing nor accurate. And the implication in your first sentence that all my posts "missed the point" is personally demeaning.

Then how about posting something positive or provide solutions instead of complaints.
If you go through most of your posts on this forum you will see that you complain about everything from "the forum itself" to how the game should work.

You want to blast on the boards your opinion. You present yourself as lathered up, though I will admit it would be better to hear you or see your posture as you present yourself. I respect your opinion. But, I will not always accept your opinion. Especially when it is a complaint that offers no solution.

[Chuck10mtn]

Hi All,
Sometimes in our rush to make change we change something just to change it.
I like the new units, maybe not what they can do but new units are good. The new graphics are really good. What I'm afraid happening is its a game of who can read the fine print better, faster or who can remember what all the units can or can't do. I guess I'm like MR. Roadrunner don't change something because we can, change something to make it better.
Its a game about war, lets not have a war over a game. Lets keep the changes to a minium and hope that they don't go very far off the old talonsoft path thats the game we all love to play, Its simple yet hard fast yet slow and as a player you can do as much or a little to help yourself to win or just have fun with. Just my thaughts on the matter.
Chuck

[Von Earlmann]

Guys,
All I can say is in my campaigns a daylight turn is equal to about 24 mins and a night turn is equal to about 45 mins.It usually breaks down to about 45 to 47 turns per day and having run a few campaigns I can comfortably say that's about right.Players can do bout what was historically done....sometimes a little better and sometimes a little worse. About the way of any good game.............and by damn this is a good game :-)

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Guys,
All I can say is in my campaigns a daylight turn is equal to about 24 mins and a night turn is equal to about 45 mins.It usually breaks down to about 45 to 47 turns per day and having run a few campaigns I can comfortably say that's about right.Players can do bout what was historically done....sometimes a little better and sometimes a little worse. About the way of any good game.............and by damn this is a good game :-)

Excellent points Earl! :smoke:
It is funny how time can be modeled abstractly by the scenario designer but, when referred to as stated in the manual it can become a heated debate.

In the end, I agree, it is a great game.

[Osiris]

Hi All

I think this started as a general conversation about the time scale in the game but its obvious we all have a passion for this game. So lets find some solutions as Chuck said. I dont think anyone really wants to change the mechanics of the game..so here are some solutions that may or may not work..remember these are just ideas so please don't shoot me for it because my Tiger has mechanical issues..heheee

Bridges: Almost all armies use specialized bridge laying armor in ww2..that would solve the bridge issue..units like the valentine bridge layer could be added to the game. Keep the bridges in the game as is in 1.03 just make it longer to have them placed a few turns at least...a compromise can be worked out here.

Mines: Engineers can lay mines but not in 1 turn..say 4 turns for a low level 1 density minefield

timescale: This is a tough one but theres a few things that need to be kept in mind:

250m is the scale:

a: The manual might want to reflect that a turn is anywhere from 10-20 minute turns..at least than the infantry can do the distance in the time givencurrent marching speeds..3-4 hexes per turn..MBT a board game I play is 50m scale and in the manual the turns are anywhere from 30 seconds to 6 minutes..

b: Units should be given 3 grades novice, regular and crack. Fatigue is already built into the game for infantry units that do double time. Im not an game engine designer but if its already in the game I think it just needs to be expanded to armor units and artillery, especially tube artillery...

c: Supply trucks should be included in the game. Protecting your supply column should be as important as taking your objectives. Unit can be re-supplied after 1-2 turns adjacent to a supply truck. Talk about resource and unit management! I think it could be fun chasing your opponents supply trucks around the board. Infantry could use their transport trucks platoons as supply trucks instead of what all players do in PBEM games and that is take them off the board in scenarios. This makes the longer scenarios more realistic.

d. Order delays: This is hard one. Should order delays should be applied to battlalion level only or can it go down to company level. For now I simulate order delays with 50% supply and 50% chance of units arriving on time. It adds certain degree of unpredictability to the game and forces players to adapt to situations and come up with solutions if certain units dont arrive on time

Those are my thought on possible solutions :)

One more thing! Lets work out something now on this forum on this topic right here..we can come up with solutions and present them to matrix as a group rather than as individuals for patch 1.04..more likely to be listened to :)

Osiris

[Gordons HQ]

Quote: "There is no need to dedicate 5 turns to the Brits drinking tea."

Hey never mind the time scale this tea has to be drunk, especially when everything goes to hell around you.:)