What's fair

[Huib Versloot]

Yes I think in theory putting armor on an exit hex is gamey when the enemy is about to reach it in force.

What would you propose that the person do? Surely a fighting withdrawl is acceptable. And if you are out of space, surely defending the exit hex is ok?

Well if it came to the point that the scn became unwinnable for me because the exit hex is reachable but blocked with wrecks and therefore it has become impossible to get points from them I would propose a victory. If the other side rejects, then sobeit and drop him as opponent.

[John Given]

Yes I think in theory putting armor on an exit hex is gamey when the enemy is about to reach it in force.

What would you propose that the person do? Surely a fighting withdrawl is acceptable. And if you are out of space, surely defending the exit hex is ok?

Well if it came to the point that the scn became unwinnable for me because the exit hex is reachable but blocked with wrecks and therefore it has become impossible to get points from them I would propose a victory. If the other side rejects, then sobeit and drop him as opponent.

I'm pretty much in agreement with all that - and I need to clarify that in scenarios I play that include exit hexes, I mention my "stacking of exit hexes" rule and have yet to have any dissenters. The important thing is that folks are not blocking exit hexes by filling up the hex(s) in question, with wrecks or what-have-you.

Now that the wreck removal option is in play for the matrix CS, much of this problem has gone away, fortunately. However, I still bring it up with my opponents containing exit hexes before a battle just to clarify.

The point about multiple exit hexes is a good one - that it makes it much more difficult to "cheesily" prevent an exit by stacking it with wrecks (or whatever). Of course, the implication that multiple exit hexes are necessary to prevent these kinds of tactics is in itself disturbing (to me anyway).

The main reason I mention all this in this thread is to let folks know that this is a tactic that someone might want to pull in a "cheap" attempt at a win, and that it seems to be the reverse of the "entry hex camping" that was mentioned earlier in the thread.

[Hawk Kriegsman]

I'm pretty much in agreement with all that - and I need to clarify that in scenarios I play that include exit hexes, I mention my "stacking of exit hexes" rule and have yet to have any dissenters. The important thing is that folks are not blocking exit hexes by filling up the hex(s) in question, with wrecks or what-have-you.

You would have one in me. I as a player have every right to defend any and all objectives as I see fit, within the confines of the club rules. An exit hex is an objective and can be defended.

As I stated earlier if someone put halftracks or lightly armored vehicles in an exit hex and then shelled them to create wrecks than that is out of line. Otherwise defend away. I know that the sceanrio El Regimia Pass has defenders (fixed as I recall) in the exit hexes. Will you not play that scenario?

Now that the wreck removal option is in play for the matrix CS, much of this problem has gone away, fortunately. However, I still bring it up with my opponents containing exit hexes before a battle just to clarify.

Other than most scenaios to date don't have wreckers to clear wrecks.

The point about multiple exit hexes is a good one - that it makes it much more difficult to "cheesily" prevent an exit by stacking it with wrecks (or whatever). Of course, the implication that multiple exit hexes are necessary to prevent these kinds of tactics is in itself disturbing (to me anyway).

It is not cheesy to put valid defenders in an exit hex. Please stop implying it as such.

The main reason I mention all this in this thread is to let folks know that this is a tactic that someone might want to pull in a "cheap" attempt at a win, and that it seems to be the reverse of the "entry hex camping" that was mentioned earlier in the thread.

It is a perfectly valid tactic to defend an exit hex and is not cheap.

Also as pointed out earlier, it almost never comes down a battle for the exit hexes.

Thanx!

[John Given]

You would have one in me. I as a player have every right to defend any and all objectives as I see fit, within the confines of the club rules. An exit hex is an objective and can be defended.

As I stated earlier if someone put halftracks or lightly armored vehicles in an exit hex and then shelled them to create wrecks than that is out of line. Otherwise defend away. I know that the sceanrio El Regimia Pass has defenders (fixed as I recall) in the exit hexes. Will you not play that scenario?

Glad we agree on the shelling of one's own units at least! I would play the the above scen, but only after making a determination it's possible to exit my units after blasting away the defenders on the exit hex (I might hit the hex with artillery a few times to un-fix them, and give the enemy a chance to be elsewhere).

Other than most scenaios to date don't have wreckers to clear wrecks.

That's a good point - I admit I'm not very familiar with the new matrix units.

It is not cheesy to put valid defenders in an exit hex. Please stop implying it as such.

We'll probably have to agree to disagree on stacking of the exit hex itself then Eric. Of course, defending OTHER types of objective hexes with anything and everything the enemy has at his disposal I've never had a problem with.

Also as pointed out earlier, it almost never comes down a battle for the exit hexes.

I'm sorry Erik, but that misses the point I'm trying to make, namely, that exit hexes are not like other objective hexes - they are special, in effect because their maximum value is determined by the number of units exiting off of them. In addition, because of their abstract placement, it may, in SOME situations, be helpful to have a little clarification on whether stacking of such hexes should be allowed.

Of course, it's entirely possible that the entire board will disagree with me, and that's ok. A little gaming ethics discussion is a good thing. :cheeky:

[Hawk Kriegsman]

I'm sorry Erik, but that misses the point I'm trying to make, namely, that exit hexes are not like other objective hexes - they are special, in effect because their maximum value is determined by the number of units exiting off of them.

Agreed that exit hexes are special and unique however in the majority of scenarios they do not come into play. The point that Huib made and I agree with is that there is no need to get to worked up over exit hexes as in most scenarios your foe probably already has the victory if he actually reaches the exit hexes.

In addition, because of their abstract placement, it may, in SOME situations, be helpful to have a little clarification on whether stacking of such hexes should be allowed.

Exit hexes are no more or less abstract than any other objective. They are always on a board edge usually on a road.

Of course, it's entirely possible that the entire board will disagree with me, and that's ok. A little gaming ethics discussion is a good thing. :cheeky:

Like most things with CS I bet it splits about 50/50.

A little discussion is always good for sure.

As an aside it has never made a difference in our games. I am 0-2 against you! :hissy:

Thanx!