Get over it, we weren't at the heart of World War II

[Copper]

PETER Stanley is charming in conversation, anxious to listen to others rather than to announce his opinions.

But when it comes to history he does not care who he upsets, however politely he does it. He is a tough reviewer and a ferocious advocate of whatever the evidence indicates, regardless of who his arguments outrage.

And this month Stanley is about to upset everybody who believes that Japan was intent on invading Australia in 1942, with a new book -- "my 19th, I think" -- on the invasion legend and the reasons it has a hold on the popular consciousness a lifetime later.

Stanley, director of historical research at the National Museum in Canberra, agrees that he is a contentious historian.

"I am writing about things that are important and arouse strong feelings," he tells the HES. "I don't want people to read and reflect, I want them to read and respond."

And respond they likely will, if the anger generated by earlier versions of his thesis is any indication. A 2002 conference paper upset some when it was reported in the media; a longer essay in 2005 enraged many more; and now there is a monograph, Invading Australia: Japan and the Battle for Australia, 1942, which systematically sets out the case against claims that the Japanese had invasion plans.

"No historian of standing believes the Japanese had a plan to invade Australia, there is not a skerrick of evidence," Stanley says.

Yet many people are so insistent that there was a risk, last month the Government proclaimed the first Wednesday in September as Battle for Australia Day. Says Stanley, "It's not just the World War II generation that is upset by my argument, there is a curious amalgam of partisan activist veterans and younger nationalists who latch on to the Government's proclamation."

Why the invasion idea has such a hold across the generations is the other theme of Stanley's book.

He dates its resurgence to 1992, when then prime minister Paul Keating kissed the ground of the Kokoda Track in Papua New Guinea.

"This gave Australians permission to look at the war in a completely new way. The Battle of Australia idea was completely forgotten for 50 years until '92," Stanley says. "People are now interpreting World WarII as a threat to Australia, taking attention away from the Nazi and imperial Japanese threat to (all) humanity. This brings Australia, completely spuriously, into the centre of the world war."

Stanley says his book does not demean the achievements of the Australian infantry who stopped the Japanese army on the Kokoda Track.

But he is interested why proponents of the invasion argument are fixated on Kokoda, given that if any Japanese invasion plan had existed, it became impossible to put into action after the Battle of the Coral Sea months earlier.

For Stanley, this is an argument about much more than what the Japanese high command did or did notplan.

"Parochialism offends me," he says. "I am quite passionate that World WarII was a war worth fighting.

"People say I am denouncing veterans, but no, I want to praise that generation. They saved the world from tyranny. That is the thing to value, not just what they did to defend Australia but the way they helped to defend the world against the global threat to civilisation."

And for everybody who wants to argue, he has a simple suggestion: "Look at the evidence. Don't make assumptions, look at the evidence."

[Steel God]

Here's an historian I can appreciate

Of course hindsight is wonderful. Now, 65 years on, it may be easy to look and see the Japanese had no real plans to invade Australia, but in 1942, it had to look that way to the Allied High Command, and it needed to be defended as if it was.

[Copper]

Yeah but why do people of today who have the historical evidence in front of them still state that the Japs were after Oz??

Do you think it makes them feel a little more important in the grand scheme of things.

There is no doubting the influence of the Anzacs during WWII in certain battles but I think the Attack on Australia is just used to fan the patriotic flame.

[Steel God]

To be completely honest with you Shane, I haven't heard too much about such things here in the states, maybe it's a bigger issue in Australia? I do try and stay on top of global issues, but maybe that's just not front page news here. The article could (from one POV) just be trying to fabricate controversy where none exists, saying things like, "He's going to upset a lot of people who hold the blah blah blah", when in reality, there are few, if any, folks who would dissent from his position. :dunno:

[Sgt Barker]

To be completely honest with you Shane, I haven't heard too much about such things here in the states, maybe it's a bigger issue in Australia? I do try and stay on top of global issues, but maybe that's just not front page news here. The article could (from one POV) just be trying to fabricate controversy where none exists, saying things like, "He's going to upset a lot of people who hold the blah blah blah", when in reality, there are few, if any, folks who would dissent from his position. :dunno:

Having lived in Oz (Brisbane) in 95-96 it was a big deal then. You would have thought the "The Kokoda Trail" was up there with Alamein, Stalingrad and Midway. Great time there, great people, but the view of WWII from the average guy was pretty over the top. (It was much like it is here IMO in that most didn't know squat about WWII, and what people did "know" just wasn't true.)

[Mike Abberton]

My first thought, too, was "huh? Who seriously thinks that the Japanese even wanted to invade Australia?", but then I thought about it more. It is probably similar to the situation if a popular US historian came out with a book here in the US about how the D-Day and the US/UK (and Free French, Polish, etc.) invasion of Europe wasn't the most important single event that led to the defeat of Nazi Germany.

No serious WW2 historian would debate it, but the general public, politicians and what not would be all over that person's case about how unpatriotic they were, and how could they denigrate so many veterans, etc.

[FLG]

To be completely honest with you Shane, I haven't heard too much about such things here in the states, maybe it's a bigger issue in Australia? I do try and stay on top of global issues, but maybe that's just not front page news here. The article could (from one POV) just be trying to fabricate controversy where none exists, saying things like, "He's going to upset a lot of people who hold the blah blah blah", when in reality, there are few, if any, folks who would dissent from his position. :dunno:

Having lived in Oz (Brisbane) in 95-96 it was a big deal then. You would have thought the "The Kokoda Trail" was up there with Alamein, Stalingrad and Midway. Great time there, great people, but the view of WWII from the average guy was pretty over the top. (It was much like it is here IMO in that most didn't know squat about WWII, and what people did "know" just wasn't true.)

I think it is just human nature to overestimate ones own importance. I don't mean that in a petty negative way but rather that the we use our own standards to measure things so the contributions of our own nation seem to be more important on our own scales. I think as nations we are all guilty of that.

Here in England the average Joe on the street still think we could have won the war without the US, probably with the liberal application of some 'Stiff Upper Lip', and most people are only vaguely aware Russia was involved at all. Similarly, in the US Hollywood has all but forgotten that anyone accept America fought on the allied side.

Here on this forum most of us are educated enough to appreciate the proper contribution made by all nations.

[Steel God]

Here on this forum most of us are educated enough to appreciate the proper contribution made by all nations.

And if not educated enough, we have the advantage of daily rubbing digital elbows with British, Russian, French, German, etc etc etc members and learning about other sides of the stories. Something a greet many folks, isolated in their own little comfort zones, don't do enough of, IMO.

Good posts all.

[Copper]

Hmmm not sure... I find the Russians, Germans and French very rarely put their points of view regarding the war across.. I mean... we have Finns and Russians... do they ever discuss the Winter War??

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

Not to stir the pot or anything, but if I remember correctly, isn't the Kokoda Track the first solid defeat inflicted upon Japanese ground forces by the Australians? Possibly the first by any nation? Can't remember the dates in conjunction with Guadalcanal. I'd say that is a big deal considering all the expansion that the Japanese were doing at the time. The Australian army wasn't very big and remember the 18 div was lost at Singapore, the 6,7 and 9 div were in North Africa/Middle East areas, Darwin had been hit at least once and the Bde at Port Moresby, the 30th I think, weren't they more a Territorial unit than Regular Army? IMO that's huge. I spent 33 days on a training exercise in the Outback in 92. The Aussies I met were hugely courteous, respectful and thankful to US soldiers. People within the maneuver area played along with our training exercise, they set up a radio station, fed true and fasle information to questions, whichever way they felt like going with it.