The Russian halftrack debate

[Von Earlmann]

The Russian equivalent of the German halftrack for gaminess and misuse has to be the justly famous Anti-Tank rifle platoon.
They are currently used for recon,listening posts, speed bumps, and arty spotters and at 2 pts per sp they are very economical to use in these modes. They do quite well at it and are a much better bargain now than halftracks or trucks :-)

I have had to make a special ruling in campaigns restricting the use of these units to actual anti-tank use.....imagine that :rolleyes:


VE

PS: Just something to even up the halftrack debate.

[John Given]

The Russian equivalent of the German halftrack for gaminess and misuse has to be the justly famous Anti-Tank rifle platoon.
They are currently used for recon,listening posts, speed bumps, and arty spotters and at 2 pts per sp they are very economical to use in these modes. They do quite well at it and are a much better bargain now than halftracks or trucks :-)

*Sigh*

Guilty as charged. I use these units for all of the above. Part of the reason is because they are so common, another is that they perform the above functions so admirably, at at a low sp cost - it's just too much for me to ignore. However, if another player suggested to me before game that I limit my AT platoon use to actual attacks, I would abide by it.

Ask Scud (David Bracken) about my AT platoon use in "Giants on the Vistula." My (shameful?) AT platoon use allowed me to see his forces and...report on their positions, whilst calling in some light mortar artillery fire support. IF I had airstrikes, my AT platoons would have called them in too. Somehow I can't imagine these units equipped with communications gear that would allow for this. :chin:

Actually, I'm quite well-behaved in my HT use - I keep them far away - spotting from distant forest hexes. But I *will* use them to spot nonetheless. Also used for transport, and to provide a quick escape for many non-mobile guns (take a shot with the gun, then load up and away in the same turn before the enemy can hit it next turn with artillery or whatever. :cool:

One counter-point; the Russian really has no great recon options in the game - low-sp SMG platoons are about as close as it gets. Armored cars, when they are in the game, are too valuable and useful to be used in close proximity to the enemy, so I use Russian AC's like german HT's - spotting from distant forest hexes. :whis:

[Mike Abberton]

I know what you're saying Earl, but unfortunately they are pretty useless at the anti-armor roll except maybe in defensive situation in heavily wooded terrain. And even then only reliably on armored cars or halftracks (the real kind). :) In a lot of situations, I'd probably rather just move them off the map so I wouldn't lose even the measly points they are worth.

For every story of someone taking out a Panther with rear shot from an ATR, there are probably hundreds instances where they are blown away long before they do anything else.

And if ATRs can't call in artillery because they have no communication devices, than that should apply to a lot of units, particularly Russian ones.

Really they probably should have been just incorporated into the Soviet rifle platoons. I know the ATR formations were separate entities to some degree, but I would think they were distributed among the infantry in real life. Who knows.

Unfortunately, it's a non-ideal situation either way. :(

P.S. In Combat Mission they are just about as useless and just as abused if it makes any difference here. :whis:

[Kool Kat]

(Nodding my head in agreement) :cool:

BTW... the "abuse" of Anti-Tank platoons is even more pronounced in Rising Sun!

What to do with AT platoons in a battle environment (Pacific theater) with little or no AFV assets? :chin:

I use my RS AT units either to provide "some" hardening of a prepared position, screening or simply remove them from the board to "save" enemy victory points.

[Osiris]

Please see my thread on unrealistic russian artillery issues..

[Herr Straße Laufer]

I think the new "hidden ATR feature" makes the Soviet ATR platoons priceless.
It's the only unit, along with the Allied Piat Squads, that can even create a bit of parity with all those pesky German ATR squads that have the same ability to spot and direct artillery, as the Allied ones do?
Though the German ATR's sure carry a heck of a bit more wallop?

The Soviet ATR platoons were still mobilized until the end of the war. They were integral parts of every Army formation. Taking them away or penalizing them more than the other countries ATR units would not be a good start. They are manpower that was there, for those who like realism. They are also very good at taking out lightly armored vehicles. And, they can tie up the enemy in it's advance.

What do you want to do, write the game developers and have them add a burst of "realism" by taking away the spotting abilities of all ATR units?
I'm for that.

Let's just "nit pick" every thing that we personally don't like about the game and get it to be so "real" that we all just stop playing it altogether?

[Von Earlmann]

Ed,
Lighten up :-)
It is just a discussion.....I use them that way myself in regular scenarios......allowing that use in a campaign skews it very badly against the Germans....just wanted to point out that the Russians have units that can be misused as well as the beloved German halftrack......you know equal opportunity and all :-)

Earl

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Earl,
I was trying to lighten it up. :dunno: Guess it did not come out that way without smilies to guide us? :rolleyes:
By pointing out that many of the later scenarios, some of which I am playing now, have the new Panzerfaust and PanzerSchreck units that do essentially the same thing as the Soviet ATR platoon, except with a bit more power. :chin:
And, each can observe for enemy units and direct artillery fire?

I know from previous posts that you did not like the Soviet ATR's and took them out of scenarios that you designed. I liked their ability to cut up a German Ht's and light armor, and slow down the Kraut's advance.

Can they be misused? Of course.
But, just as much as the Allied and Axis ATR squads & platoons can be misused.
Do you want their effectiveness changed? And, I do not mean just the Soviet ones. Do you want all ATR units to be restricted? :)

I may not have HT's by the end of my games, but I do have ATR platoons left! :smoke:

[Krec]

i wished they packed a bit of a punch. they are diffently cheap and not much good at killing tanks. recon and plugging holes are there best use. i used to loath them now i rely on what they do best.

[Cole]

I suspect that if the ATR platoons were still there at the end of the war they were a little more effective against armor than in CS.