The spirit of the game...

ksbearski · 10-19-2008, 02:31 AM,

It seems to me that one person's "cheesy" is another person's "innovation".
The "realism" in "gamey" tactics might be that in real life commanders will risk unconventional and unorthodox tactics to win. If a person does that in a game, why is that considered "gamey" or "cheesy"?

I wonder if the Poles, Russians, French, and British thought "cheesy" when they got blitzkrieged.

ksbearski

Der Kuenstler · 10-19-2008, 02:54 AM,

ksbearski Wrote:I wonder if the Poles, Russians, French, and British thought "cheesy" when they got blitzkrieged.

Right - and I bet the Japanese were ticked when they weren't allowed to choose "Atom bomb" in their parameters...

ksbearski · (This post was last modified: 10-19-2008, 03:13 AM by ksbearski.)

Der Kuenstler Wrote:
ksbearski Wrote:I wonder if the Poles, Russians, French, and British thought "cheesy" when they got blitzkrieged.

Right - and I bet the Japanese were ticked when they weren't allowed to choose "Atom bomb" in their parameters...

Exactly...

I think that Quick Battles are tailor made to test unconventional tactics. If you buy standard kit, but someone buys a better mix based on an unorthodox tactic, then why is that "gamey". I say bully for the out-of-the-box thinker.

ksbearski

Aegis · (This post was last modified: 10-19-2008, 07:30 AM by Aegis.)

This is a catch 22 for me: When I play i like standard fighting, the out-of-the-box type of warfare for me is tactics, the way they utilize the weaponry they receive for that era, in that specified theatre, and make due with what they have to combat the enemy...For most...An unrestricted platform is more preferable because they like to cheese the crap out of their force, thus creating this form of reciprocity...or "fear" from the opponent who wants to "fight fair", and what the hell is fighting "fair"...I don't know...so I assume my entire theory of warfare is convoluted and totally irrational...Like my thought process.

KILL HIM! :chin:

Mad Baron · 10-19-2008, 07:48 AM,

Somebody said, if something seems ''gamey'' maybe it's just because it is only a game after all. True, but if we just wanted to play a straight-forward enough game of conflict, maybe we'd all be playing chess, Stratego, or Risk. I think it is the realism factor in CM that attracts a lot of us.

That said, there are things I try and not do that doesn't happen in real life, just to enhance the realism to me (and I know a couple things--spent 20 years in the US Infantry [but not WW2--haha]). I am also disappointed if an opponent does use strange (gamey?) tactics, but I have the freedom to play whoever I want.

I play pretty casually, meaning I don't get too caught up in too much game minutia. I like to win, but am used to losing, too. CM is a great pastime, but it isn't my life's work either. Big Grin

RedDevil · (This post was last modified: 10-19-2008, 11:05 AM by RedDevil.)

Cheers for the fact on statements about my comments lads, I'm afraid I would have done much worse in replying to the insinuating inquiries of some, whose only paradigm is seemingly one stuck in the bowels of old history, feel people never change, and can never move on with life without the petty finger pointing, matter of fact, slop of pathetic mind numbness...

Quite a chuckle, since POS and I are on the best of terms after we talked about the "incident" and let the past be the past. I have since played him again without any issues, and will do so in the future when I decide to climb back into my Panzer.
Oh the irony of old news, it seems to be the only news for some.

zeke · 10-19-2008, 11:21 AM,

ksbearski Wrote:It seems to me that one person's "cheesy" is another person's "innovation".
The "realism" in "gamey" tactics might be that in real life commanders will risk unconventional and unorthodox tactics to win. If a person does that in a game, why is that considered "gamey" or "cheesy"?

I wonder if the Poles, Russians, French, and British thought "cheesy" when they got blitzkrieged.

ksbearski

Precisely!!!!!!!

There are tons of other examples of this in real warfare.

Rommell used 88mm AA guns against British armor (not against aircraft as they were designed) in North Africa with great effect. The British did not think it was "proper" to use the weapon in a role it wasn't designed for, and paid a big price. Was this "gamey"?

I totally agree with Ratzi that because it is a game, there is nothing that is gamey.

The talented commander should be able to effectively deal with "gamey" tactics, such as advancing 50mm mortars with no ammo ahead to scout and cause some havok. Heck, I *welcome* these tactics. I would gladly take the KIA and points that go along with killing the 50mm scout team. If you have not properly prepared for tactics like these you most likely will not do well in the game.

Mad Russian · (This post was last modified: 10-20-2008, 07:30 AM by Mad Russian.)

RedDevil Wrote:Cheers for the fact on statements about my comments lads, I'm afraid I would have done much worse in replying to the insinuating inquiries of some, whose only paradigm is seemingly one stuck in the bowels of old history, feel people never change, and can never move on with life without the petty finger pointing, matter of fact, slop of pathetic mind numbness...

Actually, I thought it showed your point exactly Randy. You sent POS an email telling what you thought of his cheezy choices. You didn't make those statements public. POS chose to do that. Then you defended yourself in public after it was brought out in the open.

I had an incident very much like yours, with the same gamer, so I can relate....

Quote: Quite a chuckle, since POS and I are on the best of terms after we talked about the "incident" and let the past be the past. I have since played him again without any issues, and will do so in the future when I decide to climb back into my Panzer.

Again, as it should be. Most gamers end up smoothing over the ruffles and alot of times becoming friends.

Quote:Oh the irony of old news, it seems to be the only news for some.

The issue with old news Randy is that there are those that believe a leopard can't change it's spots. That if you don't pay attention to past history you are forced to relive the experiences over again. So, I'm sure you can find it in your heart to forgive those that may well have had past experiences with you, that were less than cordial, and now seeing you preach turn the other cheek.

It may take a bit more of the, "do as I do", rather than a, "do as I say" display from you to get that message to stick. A kudo to you is that you seem to be trying to make that change. I applaud you for that effort.

A HUGE part of the problem here at the Blitz IMO is the fact that the ROE's aren't specific but are open to interpretation. That means the ROE's are 100% opinion based.

What that means is the ROE's are 100% MOD OPINION BASED. Whoever the current mod is determines what the ROE's mean at this moment.

I believe that's the sole crux of alot of the issues here.

Now, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Not a single site I know of, even the ones I'm a mod on, are democracies. There has to be a final place for the determination of how a site is run and moderated. Where I think the Blitz sets itself up for alot of these little "discussions", is, that since so much of the ROE is open to interpretation you have things happening all over the map. Nothing set in stone so everybody is right. Then the Mod has to step in and sort it all out....very time consuming on the part of the Blitz staff I would think. Not to mention feelings getting hurt, which seems to happen in some sectors more than others.

But if as has been alluded to in this thread and this is just a game and anything goes, well then, we don't even need mods. If anything goes then everything is okay and nothing is every awry.

We all know how that works.

I think, in the past, there have been issues with the "do as I say, not as I do" form of modding. I've not seen that in awhile. I think things have improved greatly because of it.

The Blitz seems on a more level setting now than at any of the short time I've been a member here.

Good Hunting.

MR

bluehand · 10-20-2008, 09:13 AM,

I'm waiting for some one to call me out for using the german AA 20mm halftracks in ground attack rolls instead of the the assualt 20mm halftracks (which have a third the ammo). What do you guys think of that? Gamey or no?

ksbearski · 10-20-2008, 09:30 AM,

bluehand Wrote:I'm waiting for some one to call me out for using the german AA 20mm halftracks in ground attack rolls instead of the the assualt 20mm halftracks (which have a third the ammo). What do you guys think of that? Gamey or no?

I think that's a smart move...and if your opponent bought a plane, BONUS!

Hey, I've used the US quad 50 cal tracks for direct fire support as well.

ksbearski