CMBB Dying

[Der Kuenstler]

I also got tired of having to micro-manage my "icons", and to a degree that was turning into labor and not fun. I was checking every fold in the ground, every depression, getting down at eye level checking LOS from possible positions. I realized I had turned into every team leader for every unit on the map, instead of playing the role of Company Commander or Battalion Commander, which is what I wanted to do.

In a real battle, everyone actually has their own mind. There are 500 minds out there making their own decision of where to go and what to do after the commander says "flank that trench!" That's why I think the WEGO system is still superior to RTS games - I think it's more realistic to command each one minute by minute with human intelligence than to hurriedly throw out a few orders and let the AI take over the rest. I find it relaxing to give out the orders - kind of like whittling on the front porch or something.

Later, I realized tanks do not bunch up into very tight groups so they can mass fires on a single spotted target, which is what this tactic allows you to do. This is possible because the tanks can shoot through each other, in real life they cannot.

Good point here -I agree...

[Ratzki]

Well, if SP is still being played long after it's release, I would dare to say that CM will too. I know the grapics card issue is a bit daunting but hopefully there is a fix out there that will be found by someone. Even if there is just a handfull of people playing the game after a year or more, it will be enough for those that want to persevere. I hope that BF or Matrix keep on the path and release a product that is hands down better then CM, but untill then I will keep on playing CM against whoever out there wants to play.

[Der Kuenstler]

Right - CM won't totally die until they actually make something better.

[Mike Abberton]

Steel Panthers is a little different from CM (at least at the moment). How many different many versions of SP have come out since SSI went out of business? It basically is a supported game, with a developer that maintains it, and will probably made patches, if necessary, to keep it running on new hardware.

At the moment CMx1 does not have that right now, but I suspect that it will in the long run. Unless something new comes along to replace it, CMx1 will limp along for quite a while (look how long the Campaign Series lasted between Talonsoft ending support and Matrix picking it up), and then someone like Matrix will probably buy the rights to update it for current OS's and hardware. That usually happens after the original company goes out of business or at least stops producing products under that title.

So my guess is that the CM world will slowly shrink as it becomes harder to find and play on modern platforms. It won't disappear, but it will stagnate somewhat. Eventually it will get resurrected by some company and will enjoy a bit of a resurgence.

[Michael Dorosh]

Steel Panthers is a little different from CM (at least at the moment). How many different many versions of SP have come out since SSI went out of business?

Did Steel Panthers ever really change much though? They would have benefited from moving to at the very least simultaneous turn resolution. I thought SP was really great in 1995, but WaW in 2000 was kind of just a rehash, and looking at it now - it hasn't aged well. Sequential turn-play is just too rife with cheats like drawing fire with low value units, etc.

Sure, SP expanded to the modern era, platoon-size, etc., but they seemed like simple variations on a theme. I never tried the latest MBT version, so I can't speak with authority on it - did it make any major changes?

[Michael Dorosh]

Well MR, I see that your still acting as the harbinger of CMs Doom! I suppose if you keep repeating it regularly for the next ten years then some day maybe you will be proven right. I have no idea why you ressurected this thread.

If you are so convinced that CM is dying, then just throw away your CM disks and stay away from the game. It seems that it has really got you up late worrying about it.
Lord Bane (FGM)

I don't think that's fair. MR has been a pretty level-headed voice of reason, and one of the best scenario designers I know. He's a regular on several forums and a fair historian to boot. I don't know your background so it's possible you're all those things as well. It doesn't matter, all those personality traits still won't get you a free McNugget at the local Golden Arches, so I'll get to the point.

If I may - and no disrespect intended, because we're all here I presume for the same reason, as fans of the original series and possibly of CM:SF or potential fans of the WW II engine - I think MR alludes to some basic facts.

BFC never patched the original games fully. That's a fact.

New technologies come out that make CM unplayable - Mac operating systems, Vista/nVidia graphics cards, whatever. That's a fact.

You make a great point too, I mean, nothing is telling us to shatter our discs. There does remain another fact, and that's our CDs will eventually wear out (remote possibility) or our digital downloads will corrupt. I hope not.

At some point, the game will die out, and I think we can conclude that's a fact. Is the community shrinking? No idea. Most gamers play in seclusion, but that raises the question - what is CM? Is it the game, or the community?

[falco]

Right - CM won't totally die until they actually make something better.

There is something better out there right now. Its called Panzer Command Kharkov. Try it sometime......you might be surprised.

- falco.

[Artur]

... Sequential turn-play is just too rife with cheats like drawing fire with low value units, etc.

Sure, SP expanded to the modern era, platoon-size, etc., but they seemed like simple variations on a theme. I never tried the latest MBT version, so I can't speak with authority on it - did it make any major changes?

Look at the OP fire filter function in SPMBT and SPWWII. You can set each unit the type of target to OP fire at, thus negating the OP fire draining tactic if you use correct combined arms force. Eg, machine guns OP fire at infantry ATGs at tanks etc.

[Ken F. (FGM)]

Hi Grog Dorsoh,

While I'm at it, I want to thank you for your review of "God, Honor, Fatherland: A photo history of Panzergrenadier division GrossDeutschland", over at Amazon.

Based on your review, I purchased the book and very much enjoyed it.

I base many of my book purchases on recomendations and reviews, so it really helps out my limited budget in going a long way in the WW2 library.

Cheers,
Ken

[Michael Dorosh]

While I'm at it, I want to thank you for your review of "God, Honor, Fatherland: A photo history of Panzergrenadier division GrossDeutschland", over at Amazon.

Based on your review, I purchased the book and very much enjoyed it.

I base many of my book purchases on recomendations and reviews, so it really helps out my limited budget in going a long way in the WW2 library.

First, thanks to Artur for the info on SP - much appreciated.

Glad you found the review on the GD book helpful, Ken. It's really an amazing book, isn't it? I think my favourite picture in it is the one of the German MP, with the gorget and the MP40. Really great quality pictures, in a large format. I know what you mean about needing reviews - there are so many books out there now with people cashing in on German stuff, where do you start. Some of the German Infantryman titles from Osprey are particularly bad (though osprey is getting really good in general - and they used to have a bad rep), and I rated one really poorly for using photos they found on ebay (I'm guessing) in which the author had no idea what was in them and basically said so in the photo captions. "Here's part of a motor of an airplane lying on the ground." That's great, why is it in GERMAN INFANTRYMAN IN RUSSIA? "Here's a trench. It might be a headquarters." Yeah, great, maybe it's a latrine, too...