ZOC'S again

[tbridges]

Beer comes in crates in the UK???? :P

I'm relocating tomorrow!!

[James Ward]

James, in the discussions there has been about this in the past the thinking behind that situation was that ZOC also represented the interdiction of a hex through the firepower of a defending unit, so if you are walking along the opposite river bank you can still be shot at even if the enemy cannot physically reach you. :chin:

Theoreticly you could have unit without any hard attack value preventing an armour unit from moving or even isolating it. It just seems odd. I like the way they work in general tho.

[Krak]

I would like to see a smalll change in the default zoc rules. Simply any formation with (x.10) or less men or (x) or less vehicles simply does not exert a zoc. (x) could be set in the pdt. For example the designer might make x=5. Which would mean units with 50 or less men or 5 or less vehicles would not have a zoc. I just can't see how such small units can have such a large influence over such a large area. Apart from that small anoyance I don't have a problem with the zoc rules.

[Mr Grumpy]

Beer comes in crates in the UK???? :P

I'm relocating tomorrow!!

Yup and when you have drunk all the bottles the plastic crate is a handy thing to stand on for those hard to reach places, so you get "double bubble" as we say round here!

[Mr Grumpy]

I would like to see a smalll change in the default zoc rules. Simply any formation with (x.10) or less men or (x) or less vehicles simply does not exert a zoc. (x) could be set in the pdt. For example the designer might make x=5. Which would mean units with 50 or less men or 5 or less vehicles would not have a zoc. I just can't see how such small units can have such a large influence over such a large area. Apart from that small anoyance I don't have a problem with the zoc rules.

Michael,
Yes i agree with you, for a more "real life" feel that would be a nice change, the level a unit would have to shrink by to lose its ZOC would need some discussion though. :chin:

Just to argue from just a "game" side, many players believe the defender is already at a disadvantage in PzC and so this would only make the situation worse. :chin:

[Krak]

Yeah and I am one of them :) LOL

[fastphil]

I understand about being shot at from the far bank, and would be prepared to take casualties, but in my case have 4 regiments of infantry stuck,just seems to me to be wrong.[/i]

Just because your prepared to take casualties(although no one hopefully is shooting at you), doesn't mean the members of those four regiments are.:stir:
Remember that the 'regiment' also means all the service troops that provide direct support to those regiments and other forces represented by that one 'unit' but not given separate counters are also being exposed to direct fire and to spotting for indirect fire. It's a game gents.:whis:
The problem is not with ZOC anyway but the limited fog of war. If a unit moving in battle runs into an AFV or a 88mm, the 'smart' commander is usually going to stop, deploy, recon trying to find what else is there before plunging head long into battle. The Birds eye view of the map even with FOW gives the 'GAME' commander too much certainty. The player seldom has to worry about units getting lost(unless he lets the AI move them for him) and has a much better overall view of the battle field than most WWII commander had.
With no ZOC for small units, the concept of having a reargard defense then becomes meaningless.

[Bidermann]

Dont get me wrong I love the game, and yes Zoc,s are an abstract rule which covers all sorts of going on around the units on the battle field.

Happy to leave Zocs as they are.And will be more carfull of my units movment:-)

[Glenn Saunders]

Guys - I don't want to be seen as closed minded or stiffling any discussion.

I had the exact same discussion when we were making PzC #4 - Tobruk. This was Wig Graves game and he support doing something new with ZOC.

Johns responce then is what I use whenever this comes up.

There are three models for ZOC in the PzC system - pick the one that works best with the situation being modeled. Outside of that, there is not a whole lot anyone can do. We can talk about - just as long as it doesn't lead us to believe that our talk will change it.

Glenn

[James Ward]

In Kursk the default seems to be movement from zoc to zoc using all movement points and there is an option to turn on locking zoc's. How do you 'turn' on zoc to zoc movement using the zoc multiplier mentioned in the manual? Is this something that must be modded?