Desperate plea for russian translator

[Indragnir]

Hi folks,

I'm working on Yom Kippur GC, I've read a lot of books, web sites, about October War... only to found there aren't two similar OoB!.
Name and number changes, ToEs changed from book to book, missing units, renaming of forces, Task Forces being formed and disbanded, really a nightmare... until I stumbled upon a russian site that have real information about ToE and OoB for October War, of course I tried to translate from Russian to English using internet translator but with few success, only about 40% has any kind of meaning, the rest ...

So, please, please if there are some kind, gentle soul able to help me, I only ask a roughly translate to english (or spanish XD) for the site, it's only a page but a long one.

You can post here or e-mail me to : [email protected]

Thank you in advance.

César

[alaric99x]

Hi Cesar,

My wife is Russian, send me the info and I'll put her to work.

Eric

[Indragnir]

Thank you Eric, and thanks also to your wife.

I've copied and pasted the text, a bit longer than I thinked earlier: 17 pages.

I'll send it to your e-mail.

BTW, Have you received my Minsk CG last turn?

César

[alaric99x]

BTW, Have you received my Minsk CG last turn?

César

No, as a matter of fact, I've been waiting for that. Just for reference, the last turn I sent was the first half of 17.

I guess I'm becoming the local translation guy, if anybody needs English/German or English/Russian, let me know.

[MasnarT]

i can help with Arabic...

[Indragnir]

Thank you Dany,

ToE and OoB of Arab's forces is very clear and easy to track, no problem at all, but israeli ones...

Bests
César

[Glenn Saunders]

ToE and OoB of Arab's forces is very clear and easy to track, no problem at all, but israeli ones...

César

Yes - I know what you mean and feel your pain - very confusing and often with direct conflicts within a single source. I've read somewhere that this is intentional on the IDFs side as this is still considered a matter of national security.

I guess my question is why you think this Russian site is correct, or more correct than others. I mean I can imagine it might be clear or clearer than some of the others, but is the Clarity accurate when you consider the Russians were backing the other side?

Glenn

[Indragnir]

ToE and OoB of Arab's forces is very clear and easy to track, no problem at all, but israeli ones...

César

Yes - I know what you mean and feel your pain - very confusing and often with direct conflicts within a single source. I've read somewhere that this is intentional on the IDFs side as this is still considered a matter of national security.

I guess my question is why you think this Russian site is correct, or more correct than others. I mean I can imagine it might be clear or clearer than some of the others, but is the Clarity accurate when you consider the Russians were backing the other side?

Glenn

Good point Glenn, my point is a russian speaker told me this information were elaborated by a group of russian jews, linked in some way to IDF, I can tell you (for this 40% that makes sense) their info is completer, clearer than every other source I've ever read.

1973 Soviet Union backed Arab side but russian jews backed Israel.

That's my point.

[Glenn Saunders]

Good point Glenn, my point is a russian speaker told me this information were elaborated by a group of russian jews, linked in some way to IDF, I can tell you (for this 40% that makes sense) their info is completer, clearer than every other source I've ever read.

1973 Soviet Union backed Arab side but russian jews backed Israel.

That's my point.

Hey Works for me - it surely is confusing, especially the way they switched Bridges around into "division units with names that changed" - I think The basic layout I used was from Dupuy.

Worth repeating for anyone following the thread - something in the designed notes which I took from a couple books.

++++

O’BALANCE has written a book on each War and in one of his books he uses his own letter scheme for Brigades. For 1973 he says:

“The Israeli System of designations was deliberately confusing, and some designations were duplicated; for example there was a 7th Armored Brigade on the Golan and the Sinai.

DUPUY say in a footnote to his 73 OOB appendix:

“This OOB list 30 separate brigades …Eight Brigades appear twice, one appears three times. Among the Brigades not mentioned were ….(and he lists a number of formations known to have existed but are not shown anywhere). … At least four of the Armored Brigades listed were likely mechanized brigades incorrectly identified.”

++++

Glenn

[Indragnir]

Glenn,

There're some errors in the way Israeli military names have been translated, for examlple IDF did no employed Divisions, they form Ugdas, and Ugda is really a Kampfgruppe or Task Force, so they switch units (company level even) between Ugdas every day, that's why two brigades are listed on two theatres.

Even worse, IDF had a smaller "Combat Command" called "Koah" (from company to battalion level) that let them switch, disband, reform every single unit.

And they did it :)

Unit switchs from Udga/Koah to Ugda/Koah was very common, that's why it's so hard to track all those units, even worse it was common separate a battalion from a bigger units, attach this battalion to other separates battalion and form a new unit with new name.

I've tracked at least 3 armored brigades not so armored, but mechanized. later IDF added some tanks and become Armored Brigades.

I'll do a excel sheet to track units related by parent unit/time, there's no other way.

César