Realistic Artillery Management - FOO Rule

[seabolt]

Easy enough to verify at the end of the battle. Violations result in a forfeit and other penalties as deemed approprate by the powers that be.

It's not counting FOs that's the problem. (I have an intact set of fingers for that task.) It's distinguishing legal from illegal fire shifts in game. In a large game, with multiple FOs and some leeway for bundling fire missions,* it gets to be a bit much.

* And if you don't allow bundling, how do you handle the corner cases? An onboard battery requires 4 FOs while an offboard battery requires only 1? A mortar platoon with three tubes can be observed by a single FO while three single-tube sections require 3 FOs?

-- 30 --

[RERomine]

It's not counting FOs that's the problem. (I have an intact set of fingers for that task.) It's distinguishing legal from illegal fire shifts in game. In a large game, with multiple FOs and some leeway for bundling fire missions,* it gets to be a bit much.

* And if you don't allow bundling, how do you handle the corner cases? An onboard battery requires 4 FOs while an offboard battery requires only 1? A mortar platoon with three tubes can be observed by a single FO while three single-tube sections require 3 FOs?

-- 30 --

Not sure you really can to everyone's satistfaction. Much of it boils down to creating guidelines and rules and trusting the people you play with to follow them.

[Vesku]

Agreed that there is a certain degree of dispersion of rounds, but would 150-300m be typical on maps the size we play on? For the US 155mm M1 gun, the dispersion area is roughly 70m x 325m at a range of roughly 18km. I suspect most ranges we engage targets at in the game are no more than a quarter of that. It will obviously vary from weapon to weapon. As you point out, most dispersal variations result in rounds being long or short. Lateral dispersion is much less significant.

Can't say, I very rarely have guns or howitzers on board, mortars are for close support.

[Weasel]

I'd love to hear an experience from a played game how easy it is to monitor all these boxes and lines some of you would like to use when you add the spread. KISS.

I have no idea how to monitor the "base" FOO rule. And I suspect I'm not the only one. I confessed a one-time lapse in Sea Lion 2 to Klanx171 and he laughed at me.

-- 30 --

How hard it can be? Your oppo says he has one FOO, you know he can fire at one spot at a time. You can count to one, can you?

Now now, be nice. :)

[Weasel]

Easy enough to verify at the end of the battle. Violations result in a forfeit and other penalties as deemed approprate by the powers that be.

It's not counting FOs that's the problem. (I have an intact set of fingers for that task.) It's distinguishing legal from illegal fire shifts in game. In a large game, with multiple FOs and some leeway for bundling fire missions,* it gets to be a bit much.

* And if you don't allow bundling, how do you handle the corner cases? An onboard battery requires 4 FOs while an offboard battery requires only 1? A mortar platoon with three tubes can be observed by a single FO while three single-tube sections require 3 FOs?

-- 30 --

R U speaking of having a FOO call in arty from different batteries etc? If so then re-read the FOO rule again; indeed a FOO can call in a battery of on board mortars couple with two batteries of off board mortars onto a single hex if he likes.

[Weasel]

CROSS WROTE:

"When ranging "

- exactly, the FOO fired each tube alone and corrected it, the gun commander would then record his stake coordinates etc. But each gun was fired alone first. In the game you suddenly see infantry coming out of the woods, are you going to turn off each gun and shoot just a single until you get it landing where you want and then go onto the next? Well of course not, you are calling in a battery on a target.

[Weasel]

Ok, after reading all the posts I do think the main sticking point is the shifting of rounds.

Perhaps it would be simple to limit the FOO rule to 1 FOO = 1 Shoot and do away with the correction part of it.

I believe a play test will be in order and I will follow up on it.

If there are players out there who have used the FOO rule as designed, and wish to test it without the shifting part of it please do so and let us know if you found it better, no different, or worse.

[RERomine]

Perhaps it would be simple to limit the FOO rule to 1 FOO = 1 Shoot and do away with the correction part of it.

I'm looking for a bit of clarity on this.

Does this mean no correction is allowed, not required to adjust all tubes to the original target hex or something else? :conf:

[Weasel]

Yes, do away with all the correction (if you move 1 tube of a shoot then all must move) and just strictly limit the rule to number of shoots = number of FOOs. So when you shoot the FOO can adjust none, some, or all of the tubes as long as they are still shooting at the same target.

So he couldn't initially call in a shoot on target A at hex 22, 33 and then shift part of that shoot onto another target at hex 33, 44.

Myself, I like the shift rule but maybe a basic mode should be created.

[GUNSLNGR]

Please help me to understand the FOO rule. Yes, it is in plain english but I'm from Alabama...

First, does the FOO rule mean that only FOO's can call in artillery? I'm assuming this is not true, but relates only to FOO units due to their ability to get arty on target faster and more accurately.

Second, if the above is true then why can't other HQ units call in arty support? I know that it is possible and quite frequently done.

Third, if my first question is true and only FOO's can call in arty strikes - then what happens if they're all killed? Would that mean no more arty 'cept those used in close support?

Honestly, I have not been following the rule - but none of my opponents have mentioned it either. I'm amicable to any pre-game agreements (within reason), but don't assume your opponent is playing the same rules you are.

Ye-Haw (Hurrah in Southern US Dialect)