Budapest 45

[Liquid_Sky]

Well..after playing 55 turns as the axis in the Konrad Campaign (alt) I have to say...this is one 'ell of a good game. The germans are completely understrength, with some panzer divisions having no tanks, and a typical battalion having only 120-300 men.

The turns are very fast to do, as you only have a couple attack divisions. The game is long enough that you can pull your SS off the front line, rail it to another area and begin a new assualt where the Russians least expect it..

All in all the game is a blast!

[Sch]

Good to hear that!

Iam planning to play the grand campaign with one of my friends.

Few questions:
-What are the experiences concerning armor engagements? The SU has some 800 T34/85, plenty of TDs and other nasty armored monsters in the area (although they become unfixed gradually)

-What about the besieged city? Did the Russian player attack the city or just pulled out most of his divs to stop the relieve attemt.

-Was the German player able to stop the the 6th Guards Army?

-and lastly, who s winning? :)

thx
Sch

(by the way is the campaign historically correct? Wikipedia says that there were 90.000 men defending the city but in the game the bp garrison has ten thousand men or so. Whats more that 100.000 russian units present in the area seems pretty slim either.)

[Ricky B]

Regarding numbers of men, remember 2 things. First, the tail of units - HQ staff, truck/panje drivers, MPs, etc, are not represented at all. Say only 1/3 of the infantry strength is shown, on average - for the Budapest garrison with a lot of ad hoc units it might be even less??? Also, vehicle units have no represenation of manpower at all, so include maybe another 10 men for each vehicle for those units. That would get you closer to total numbers that you are looking for, although very possibly still short of the garrison strength, but a lot of HQ personnel were in there I bet.

Rick

[Sch]

I can see your point, but iam still not convinced.

Wikipedia says(I have no better source unfortunately) :
"Red Army Strength : 500,000+ (170,000 for city assault)"

In pc the SU has approx 110.000 men + 4.000 guns + 2000 vehicles.
If I count 10 men for every gun and vehicle that is 170.000.

I find it quite unprobable that the Russian had 170.000 active fighting force and 330.000 other auxiliary troops.


Dont get me wrong I have nothing against the numbers used by the game I am just curious whether it is based on reality.

[Liquid_Sky]

Well...the Konrad I portion of my campaign ended about right, just in front of Bicske. (sp) I pulled back out of sight (the weather had worsened to 1 hex visiblity) and rested the Wiking whilst Totenkopf swept along the river to take the 250 pointer by the broken bridge.

I sent the Hungarians and the beat up 96th to the north to guard against 6th Guards tank army and foolishly put it against the river hoping to deny him a crossing...unknown to me, the whole army showed up with engineers and bridges already formed. I had my King Tigers entrained and hastened them to hold the hordes back, while I retreated my battered divisions back to my river...

Budapest is strange...I massed on the western edge, and made him pay dearly for moving against Buda, but Pest is a long slow death for me...he will probably own most of the eastern city, except for the 500 point victory hex ( I hope) At the moment he has only one 125pt and the eastern (75pt)supply source.

Right now, I have launched Konrad II (its turn 55) with all my panzer and SS divisions massed around Bicske. I just finished encircling about 200 tanks of the 2nd Guards mech, and I am trying to do the same to the entire 1st Guards mech. I have a feeling that its going to cost me a lot of tanks...

The game says German Major Victory, but I have a feeling that in the long run, I will probably lose, which is why I like this scenerio so much.

As a cautionary note..dont worry too much about his armour vrs your armour. Its his armour vrs your infantry that will hurt the most, combined with his billions of artillery pieces..

The German strength is mobility, and morale...use it to strike where he is weak, and get the 'ell out when he is not.

[Sch]

Thanks for sharing the game experience.

If I had been with the Russian I would have surely loaded 3/4 of the BP siege forces into trains and sent them to stop the German offensive.

The units of the Budapest garrison have almost no attacking capabality so it is simply not worth sending them out of their bunkers. So there is no risk leaving there only crappy romanian divisions.

The campaign is 395 turns long so the Russians have plenty of time to take the city after the attacking forces have been bled out.

[Glenn Saunders]

Dont get me wrong I have nothing against the numbers used by the game I am just curious whether it is based on reality.

The numbvers in the game are men holding guns on the front line and not all the various HQ up the line - not even the Platoon commander

A Rifle Div in the game is 1400 men 36 Guns or around 1/4 of the 5000 or 6000 men that make up a full strength div.

Out another way a Btln is roughly 200 soldier on the front line at this point in the war on this front vs. closer the 400 soldeir with gun on the front line at Kursk two years earlier and at a critical place in the line.

Glenn

[Liquid_Sky]

Well...there is some teeth in the city..I built a bridge to the island, and struck out with the two cavalry divisions. Casualty points are a good source of vp's. I also moved the German infantry to the western bank, to make my opponent think I could break out..

As well..there are a lot of vp's in Budapest. If you take them, it is probably game over for the axis.

I should add we are playing Volcano's _alt version, with his suggested optional rule settings

[Glenn Saunders]

> I should add we are playing Volcano's _alt version, with his suggested optional rule settings

...then "your mileage my vary" as they say. I am looking at the game as released and updated by HPS.

Glenn

[Huib Versloot]

Numbers seem to have been low. Krisztian Ungvary gives some figures in "Die Schlacht um Budapest 1944/45.
On 11.1.45 for the Germans in the southern sector:

4. Kav Brig tanks/sp: 43 guns:28 inf (combat strength): 1800
1. Pz. Div. tanks/sp: 19 guns:36 nf (combat strength): 1100
3. Pz. Div. tanks/sp: 5 guns:28 inf (combat strength): 900
23. Pz Div. tanks/sp: 24 guns:24 inf (combat strength): 1900
503. Schw PzAbt. tanks/sp: 25 guns: 0 inf (combat strength): 0.

I was especially interested in the German 711. Infanterie Division, because it left Holland for Hungary end of December 1944 in full strength after originally being designated to carry out the first assault in Fall Braun, a supporting offensive for the battle in the Ardennes that was canceled. I found that in the game they are understrength which surprised me.
I know that compared with historical figures the Pionier Bn is one company short in the game, as is the Fusilier Bn.
The Div did not have a 4th Arty Bn (3rd Bn probably had 150mm guns as it came from arty Rgt 4/189) but it is present in the game.
Unfortunately I could not find further figures for this unit though. As far as I know the unit was never renamed from Infanterie Division to Volksgrenadier Division.

Huib