LOS a Problem Maybe ?

[Steelrain60]

My 2 cents: Messing with LOS is not a good idea, for many of the reasons already stated by others, such as game vs. reality, ability to look at maps and determine LOS without units being on that ground, etc.

[The Rattler]

Agree...the game is great and has been for many years...i do like the continuing efforts by others to enhance aspects but not at the cost of being user friendly.

[Herr Straße Laufer]

***bumping the thread so that grizzled vets can add to the discussion***

There have been many interesting threads on various subjects and many with a view to adding realism to the game.
There is one fundamental issue that never seems to crop up and yet greatly effects the way the game is played.

This presumes that "realism" in your view is realism for all. I for one believe that this is a game first, simulation second, and reality last. There have already been fundamental changes to the game that have not brought further "realism".

I am talking here of LOS and the way it can be used.

One can left click on any hex and straight away you can see everything that can be seen from that hex. You don't need any unit in the hex, you just left click on it and all is revealed.

It is a useful tool to help see what your opponent might see as you are moving through terrain. It is basic map study, even in the modern military.

Now I don't know how you can do that in real life, maybe nowadays send in a drone plane or something, but in WWII there was no options for this.
No the best you could do was look at a map and take a guess what could be seen from a certain point without having any units there.

And, militarily trained members point out that map study and covering the ground is more than just guessing. If you read Patton you will know that he wanted his commanders to know the ground in front of them. They would send out patrols (not fighting patrols) and walk the ground themselves. They also used photo recon maps and intel gathered from the locals.

I raise this point because I believe it allows many unrealistic things to happen, for instance the unbelievable amount of shooting and scooting that goes on in our games.
Also checking out los before moving units there and probably other issues too.

I think it is equally unrealistic to not have line of sight checks, by the map, for purposes of seeing where your opponent may see you. Shoot and scoot is not an issue of Line of Sight and can be countered by better game play.

I don't know whether others agree with this and would like to see only actual units that are on the map can check out los, or even if it's possible to change the game
Just a though and view up for discussion,

I appreciate the offer to discuss this subject. I believe a commander would have access to more information than just what his individual unit would see from their specific location, as I stated above.
And, I do not want to see another fundamental change in the game.

That being said, maybe some of the silent "grizzled vets", who have not posted thus far, can weigh in?
Maybe even some more of our military vets can add to the discussion?



RR

[FM WarB]

An old Army aphorism..."The most dangerous thing on the battlefield is a Second Lieutenant with a map and compass!!" Like most of these old sayings, based on in the wisdom of soldiers gained by hard experience.

I was once a 2Lt with a map, and I do not feel insulted. It took me a while to figure out how to get my driver to call out distance travelled in portions of miles, convert it to portions of kilometers in my head to pick the right turnoff in the woods from my perhaps not totally up to date map. All this from the sometimes foul weather turret.

Maybe we shouldnt bitch, when automated moves go bad, because computer sends units off ideal course. I usually do, though...LoL

I still say leave LOS as it is.

[K K Rossokolski]

I still say leave LOS as it is.

Absolutely!!

[Krec]

i dont have a prob with LOS. Its just basic map sense is all. Grab the high ground or sneak through the woods either way i like checking the map for the "key" spots, heck thats part of the fun. To tell you the truth , i never really even thought twice about the LOS. :smoke: