Variable Visibility

[Glint]

You should live in Cornwall, lol! I've been here six years now and seen every kind of weather, all in one day sometimes!
Here, we have 'micro-climates' - you can be bathing in sunshine and watch the storms passing by a few miles up the road.
I think the option to use 'variable visibility' is a good option, brings a new factor into the game and, it's an option to use or not to, so everyone can be happy?
regards
Peter

[K K Rossokolski]

Thanks everyone

[Herr Straße Laufer]

RR,

Your statement did not sell me on the use of the rule; real life did. As I stated before, I don't know exactly how the rule works in the game, but in the world in which I live visability changes substantially numerous times over the course of a day. When I lived in West Texas visability changed at the most odd frequencies.

It is perhaps one of the most realistic rules I have seen included, and IMO, not to use it is "silly". Not only have I seen visability change in six minutes, but in the blink of an eye in West Texas.

Regards,

Greg

Greg,

You do know that we are discussing six minute turns and not "the course of a day"?
If you design a battle in Texas then feel free to add variable visibility to your scenario?
Otherwise silly is a good term for visibility that changes differently for each player in a six minute term where one's six minutes are different visibility than the other's six minutes?

RR

[RADO]

I beg to differ, and feel that is "silly", as you put it, to feel otherwise.

"That's all I have to say about that".

:kill:

[umbro]

IMHO the issue with Variable Visibility is (as has been pointed out) that it may be different in two consecutive turns that in IGOUGO games are supposed to be modeling simultaneous moves.

There is, however, a potential solution, that allows the reality of changing visibility in a six minute (or however long you think a turn really represents).

Currently the visibility changes at the beginning of a players turn, before his units spot previously unspotted units in their LOS - which includes units that have just appeared in their LOS because the visibility increased. That player can then take advantage of the LOS change in an unfair manner.

However, if visibilty was changed AFTER spotting then both players have an (almost) equal chance to react to the change in visibility. Furthermore, visibility should not change in two consecutive turns.

I believe that this subtle change makes this feature workable.

Please feel free to shoot holes... not that any of you buggers needs the encouragement :)

umbro

[K K Rossokolski]

I know what sort of a hole buggers shoot, and the thought disgusts me!!
I can see this a a minor feature which might well be realistic..certainly it should have an effect on the efficacy of air support, for example. But it seems to me that the REALLY IMPORTANT visibility change is from day to night and vice versa. I believe there is a way to change day to night day by changing a file setting....both players have to do this...but how neat if the game could do it at a turn set by the designer.

[Herr Straße Laufer]

IMHO the issue with Variable Visibility is (as has been pointed out) that it may be different in two consecutive turns that in IGOUGO games are supposed to be modeling simultaneous moves.

There is, however, a potential solution, that allows the reality of changing visibility in a six minute (or however long you think a turn really represents).

Until "they" say it's different, turns were/are six minutes and a hex was/is 250 meters. And, yes, the factor that makes the current Variable Visibility model "silly" is the changes within the six minutes of the IGOUGO.

Currently the visibility changes at the beginning of a players turn, before his units spot previously unspotted units in their LOS - which includes units that have just appeared in their LOS because the visibility increased. That player can then take advantage of the LOS change in an unfair manner.

However, if visibilty was changed AFTER spotting then both players have an (almost) equal chance to react to the change in visibility. Furthermore, visibility should not change in two consecutive turns.

I believe that this subtle change makes this feature workable.

If you could write an algorithm that would change visibility that way it would be workable, except I think that weather/visibility changes should be held to longer than every other turn.
Plus, you could look into "dawn" and "dusk" changes that could be programmed into the engine that, when selected, visibility can adjust up or down (not both) to reflect moving into sunrise or sunset?

I'm not a fan of the idea that the game engine should take over and bounce visibility around within six minute turns.

Please feel free to shoot holes... not that any of you buggers needs the encouragement

In the past this "bugger" has seen holes big enough to drive through. You are presenting us with something that would be hard to squeeze through. :)

Scope and scale? :chin:

Ed

[Herr Straße Laufer]

I beg to differ, and feel that is "silly", as you put it, to feel otherwise.

"That's all I have to say about that".

:kill:

I do not go off "feelings".
So, can you explain what is not silly about a player's six minute portion of the IGOUGO model having a different visibility than the other player in the same six minute turn?

Do you "feel" that one side needs glasses because they cannot see the same distance as the enemy at the same time?
That is a specious thought, and I believe it was the first impression I had that made the rule "feel" silly. :smoke:

RR

[Antoni Chmielowski]

This thread is going off topic.

KK posted a question, and had his answers, which as always shows a wide variety of views which all valid.

Please get back on topic or I will close the thread.

Thanks guys.

[Valor]

Plus, you could look into "dawn" and "dusk" changes that could be programmed into the engine that, when selected, visibility can adjust up or down (not both) to reflect moving into sunrise or sunset?

If for example designer could apply different visibility values due to the weather conditions during the battle which would change at specific turn. That would increase the modelling capability of the designer. That would have little impact on short scenario, but would be important for longer ones.

Best regards

Slawek