Glenn - WSF - Unit Effectiveness

~~Krak~~ · 07-03-2009, 12:14 PM,

Glenn
I have sent a few emails re WSF but no reply so I guess perhaps they are not getting thru for some reason.

Has there been any discussion at HPS about the Unit Effectiveness Recovery Rate (UERR)?

I have been working on a CG mod for WSF but I fear I may be wasting my time unless something is done that allows a designer to adjust the UERR in the parameter file.

Example:

Say the 21st Pz is reduced to 50% strength and 50% effectiveness through prolonged combat. The player then moves the unit to the rear for rest and refit. He then adds replacements to the unit to bring it back up to 100% strength. This in turn reduces the unit effectiveness to 0%. Unit Effectiveness is reduced on a one for one basis as replacements are added.

With a UERR of between 0%-2% per turn (as per the manual), then with an average of 1% per turn the 21st Pz will need 1% times 100 turns = 200 days = 6 to 7 months to regain 100% effectiveness assuming the unit doesn't move, remains in supply and is not attacked for this lengthy period. Unless I am totally on the wrong track here that makes trying to build a CG mod that *works* impossible.

Discussion or comments from others are most welcome. But please stick to factors that relate to UERR.

:chin:

**Mr Grumpy** · 07-03-2009, 03:44 PM,

Krak Wrote:Glenn
I have sent a few emails re WSF but no reply so I guess perhaps they are not getting thru for some reason.

Michael,
I know that Glenn has been away just recently and came back to a pile of emails so your messages may be lost in that pile somewhere??

~~Krak~~ · 07-03-2009, 05:01 PM,

Thanks Darran, that would explain it.

:)

Mike Bowen · 07-03-2009, 11:55 PM,

I do not have the game but if you let it recover a bit and then add the replacements and do the same again is that quicker?

~~Krak~~ · 07-05-2009, 09:20 AM,

Mike Bowen Wrote:I do not have the game but if you let it recover a bit and then add the replacements and do the same again is that quicker?

Mike,
No that does not seem to help. What do you think would be a reasonable time period for a unit to regain 100% from 0% effectiveness?

To my thinking 6 or 7 months seems about 2 or 3 times too long, perhaps more.

Dog Soldier · 07-06-2009, 03:13 PM,

I am not sure of the mechanics in TWiE concerning replacements and unit effectiveness. I would assume that if the unit was A quality, and had suffered, say 50% losses, then to train up and integrate the replacements to form an effective A quality unit again would take more than 90 days as you are suggesting.

Lower quality due to dilution by replacements would be the issue. Integration of replacements the key. working together as a team and building that trust factor for the replacements by the veterans, that takes time. Maybe an A quality units would only be able to regain B quality status? I am just not sure what is considered by the game engine in this regard.

Dog Soldier

~~Krak~~ · 07-06-2009, 03:26 PM,

DS
At the moment it makes no difference what quality a unit has. The effectiveness recovery rate is the same for all, an average of 1% per turn. Each turn being 2 days. If you give one replacement point to a unit, effectiveness drops by 1%. That is one for one.

So if you have a unit at 50% effectiveness and then pile in 50 replacement points your effectiveness drops to 0%.

Dog Soldier · 07-07-2009, 02:27 AM,

Hmm, I guess that quality as a factor was over looked due to the short time frame of the scenarios in the TWiE games. I would think it would have to be a factor in a longer version as you are trying to produce.

Not hard to train C or D morale infantry, 90 day wonders, such officers were called here in the states. The losses amongst such troops was higher than among units with more veterans in all armies during WW2. Certain things could only be learned in combat experience, if one survived the lessons.

Rebuilding an A or B quality unit back to be as effective as it was when it was damaged so badly, that should take far longer. Then there is national differences to consider.

The Germans did not always rebuild their units but instead built new units. Thus we see the decline in manpower in even the panzer divisions over the course of the war.

I think the Americans and British tended to use replacements to bring units back up to strength rather than create many new units.

Dog Soldier

~~Krak~~ · 07-07-2009, 07:01 AM,

Dog Soldier Wrote:Hmm, I guess that quality as a factor was over looked due to the short time frame of the scenarios in the TWiE games. I would think it would have to be a factor in a longer version as you are trying to produce.

These are my thoughts as well DS. We (scenario designers) need some control over the recovery rate to make a CG work. Ideally it would be modified by National Morale as well. Also I think a unit that is above 50% should recover faster than a unit below 50%.