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Soviet reconnaissance, artillery, and Air defence
07-23-2009, 07:58 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-23-2009, 08:00 AM by PincerDK.)
#1
c_Question Mark  Soviet reconnaissance, artillery, and Air defence
Hello everybody!

Some things I had been wondering about?

In FM-100-2-1 under the reconnaissance chapter, the manual mentions Reconnaissance Detachments, Reconnaissance groups and Separate Reconnaissance Patrols?

Apparently they are temporary tactical units, conducting reconnaissance (surprise? :rolleyes: ) and ambushes, for either the regiment or the division they belong to.

The manual mention that the different units are of different sizes:

A Separate Reconnaissance Patrol is a reinforced MR platoon sized force.
A Reconnaissance group is a reinforced MR platoon or MR company sized force.
A Reconnaissance detachment is a reinforced MR company or MR battalion sized force.

my question is since it is recon, shouldn't it only be the recon coy or the recon battalion that can form those units? and why do they then mention the different units as motorized rifle? I haven't heard anything of motorized rifle troops forming these units, to conduct recon.

Recently I also posted on Volcano Man's forum, asking another question about soviet organisation? but since he was the only one on that forum, who was able to answer some of my questions, I guess it would be better trying this forum?

"hello everybody!

I have a couple of questions regarding Soviet organisation in Danube Front 85' (Which by the way, is a truly enjoyable game ) and I hope some of you could try and answer my questions.

1. First of all, why are there 32 units in the ADA Regiment? I know that in a SA-15 regiment, there are 16 SA-15 TLAR's (the only SAM I know that could match the numbers in Danube) where does the extra 16 TLARS come from? And according to wikipedia the SA-15 was first put into production in 1986, which probably is too late if Danube Front starts during 1986.

2. if it isn't a SA-15 regiment, shouldn't it instead be a SA-6/SA-8 regiment with 20 TEL/TELARS for the whole regiment?

3. In the 303rd High Power Arty (GSFG Forces) 2 2S7 battalions and 2 240 mm mortar (Probably 2S4 Tyulpan) battalion's exists.
One of these 2S7/2S4 Battalions in the game is equipped with 24 pieces.
according to FM-100-60 a battalion of these should only be equipped with 12 pieces? where does the extra 12 come from?

I know that these are probably only estimations but if someone has an idea or a reason why the extra units are there please! fill me in!"
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07-23-2009, 08:52 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-23-2009, 09:02 AM by JDR Dragoon.)
#2
RE: Soviet reconnaissance, artillery, and Air defence
PincerDK Wrote:.

1. First of all, why are there 32 units in the ADA Regiment?


These units represent the ZSU23/4 and SA 9/13s of the regiments. Each Regiment has 4 ZSUs and 4 SAs and each division has 4 regiments. 8x4 is 32.

The long range SAMs (SA 2/3//5/6/8/10/11/12) are represented in the "SAM Intercept" value in the .pdt file (=the percentage chance that enemy strike AC will abort mission)

FM 100-2 also represents the presents what the intelligence community thought they knew, not what actually transpired.
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07-23-2009, 09:52 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-23-2009, 09:57 AM by PincerDK.)
#3
RE: Soviet reconnaissance, artillery, and Air defence
Quote: These units represent the ZSU23/4 and SA 9/13s of the regiments. Each Regiment has 4 ZSUs and 4 SAs and each division has 4 regiments. 8x4 is 32.

Yep, actually that was the question, which Volcano Man answered.
I'm glad, I got it confirmed.

Yeah, i know about the SAM intercept value, I just think it would be cooler, using actual long range SAM battalions (SA-4 etc.) instead of just a percentage.
Probably makes things more complicated having those extra battalions, but shouldn't affect my game that much.

Quote: FM 100-2 also represents the presents what the intelligence community thought they knew, not what actually transpired.

That's also what I thought, but since it is probably the only useful manual that I could use for the games, that I play (Danube 85', Steel Beasts PRO PE etc.) I might as well use it. :)
David Glantz, IIRC is the only one, besides the manual who provides the same level of information.
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07-24-2009, 02:16 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-24-2009, 02:29 AM by JDR Dragoon.)
#4
RE: Soviet reconnaissance, artillery, and Air defence
Quote:In FM-100-2-1 under the reconnaissance chapter, the manual mentions Reconnaissance Detachments, Reconnaissance groups and Separate Reconnaissance Patrols?

Apparently they are temporary tactical units, conducting reconnaissance (surprise? ) and ambushes, for either the regiment or the division they belong to.

The manual mention that the different units are of different sizes:

A Separate Reconnaissance Patrol is a reinforced MR platoon sized force.
A Reconnaissance group is a reinforced MR platoon or MR company sized force.
A Reconnaissance detachment is a reinforced MR company or MR battalion sized force.

These units are not dong reconnaisance per se. What they are doing is acting as an "Advance Guard" for the higher formation behind them (dansk: "Forspids"). They are meant to provide march security against any ambushes or act as an outpost in a defensive line (dansk: "Indledende Kamp"). They are there in order that the larger unit behind them does not become decisively engaged before the commander of that unit chooses to do so (dansk: "Kommandøren bevarer sin handlefrihed"). None of this is really relevant to DF85 since you can´t really task organize WAPA units and you enerally can´r break them down to company sized units either. At most you can send out a Tank Battalion as a "Reconnaissance Detachment" and let the rest of the regiment/division trail by a few hexes or you can reinforce your divisional reconnaisance with a battery of SP-ATGMs on BRDMs.
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07-24-2009, 04:55 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-24-2009, 04:56 AM by PincerDK.)
#5
RE: Soviet reconnaissance, artillery, and Air defence
Quote:
These units are not dong reconnaisance per se. What they are doing is acting as an "Advance Guard" for the higher formation behind them (dansk: "Forspids"). They are meant to provide march security against any ambushes or act as an outpost in a defensive line (dansk: "Indledende Kamp"). They are there in order that the larger unit behind them does not become decisively engaged before the commander of that unit chooses to do so (dansk: "Kommandøren bevarer sin handlefrihed"). None of this is really relevant to DF85 since you can´t really task organize WAPA units and you enerally can´r break them down to company sized units either. At most you can send out a Tank Battalion as a "Reconnaissance Detachment" and let the rest of the regiment/division trail by a few hexes or you can reinforce your divisional reconnaisance with a battery of SP-ATGMs on BRDMs.

The danish word for "Advance Guard" wouldn't that be "fortrop?"
I'm still civilian until next year, so just curious ? :)

But does that mean that the different units (Recon group etc.) complement the regimental advance guard or do you mean they replace THE actual battalion sized advance guard?

Well actually I was thinking of in the game, instead of having three recon coy's in the recon battalion, composed of 2 BMP coy's (12 units in each) and 1 BRDM2 coy (13 units)
then instead have the two BMP coy's renamed to 1st and 2nd Reconnaissance group and the BRDM-2 coy renamed to 3rd Reconnaissance group, and instead of having a whole BRDM coy, then divide that into 2 platoon sized separate recon patrols with 6 BRDM-2 in the first SRP and 7 in the second.
That seems more realistic IMO and you still have the same numbers.

But that's what I thought how you could organize the recon battalion.
The manual also seems to suggest that you can organise the BMP coy in the same way, by having one 1 SRP composed of 3 BMP's and 1 BRM, one SRP composed of 3 BMP's, and one SRP composed of 3 T-XX.
The only problem (in the game) was that you couldn't combine different units (T-XX and BMP-BRM)

Another question I asked to Volcano Man about information regarding soviet organisation?

"If for example I needed to know how many units there are in a soviet Motorized Rifle Battalion, what source could you recommend I could use? which one do you use? no matter if it is Danube Front or Steel Beasts.
I have already a long list of sources where Soviet organisation is showed:

FM-100-60
FM-100-2-3
FM-100-2-1
ArmouredAcorn.com
ST-100-7 OPFOR Battlebook

Some questions I have about these sources.

1. Is it better to have sources about Soviet Organisation before 1991 or after 1991? I know after the Cold War, much information from the Soviet Army was published.
2. Does anyone on this forum know where that canadian on Armoured Acorn has his sources from?"
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07-24-2009, 06:46 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-24-2009, 07:07 AM by JDR Dragoon.)
#6
RE: Soviet reconnaissance, artillery, and Air defence
PincerDK Wrote:The danish word for "Advance Guard" wouldn't that be "fortrop?"
I'm still civilian until next year, so just curious ? :)

Heh, no. The military term is "Forspids" (a platoon sized) which will then put out a squad sized "Forpatrulje". Fortrop is a general term which can be used for almost anything.

Quote:But does that mean that the different units (Recon group etc.) complement the regimental advance guard or do you mean they replace THE actual battalion sized advance guard?

You are mixing different things up. Let´s look it over:

At divisional and army level the soviet army deploy Reconnaisance Battalions. This consists of 2 companies equipped w. a 50/50 mix of BRMs and BMPs and a single company equipped w. BRDMs. The BRM/BMP have some combat capability from the BMPs missiles and dismounts. They elso employ ground search radar mounted on the BRMs ("Little Fred") and might also organizationally have a platoon of tanks each (used to be PT-76 light tanks, but more modern units might have better vehicles). The BRDM equipped unit has no combat power to speak of and relies solely on "stealth" and on its dismounted scouts sneaking about. Each company might be assigned one major route or area to scout out ahead of its parent formation. The job of this battalion is primarily to scout. It can fight (a bit) but it is not really capable of independent offensive action except against a weak opponent. If they meet any real resistance they radio in the contact and then either stops to monitor the enemy (dansk: Fastholde fjenden) or tries to go around (dansk:Omgå fjenden). The army and division commander can of course reinforce the battalion with extra tanks and motorrifle troops from his lead division/regiment or from an independent Tank Regiment/battalion if he wishes to increase its combat potential, but their primary organisational role remains reconnaisance. As a rule of thumb these units are far out ahead of the combat regiments and don´t really have much to do with them most of the time. Ideally their job will be to get behind the enemy frontline (especially the "stealthy" BRDMs) where they will then begin to send in reports about such things as helicopter FARPs, supply dumps, HQs, enemy reserves, ballistic missiles and suchlike.

Then you have the regiments of they division. This comes in either the Motorrifle or Tank variety. The lead regiment(s) of the division will typically be reinforced with divisional artillery and engineer support. This (or these) regiments will build the divisional Advance Guard. Either of these regiment types has a reconnaisance company with a platoon of mixed BRM/BMPs and a platoon of BRDMs (this unit is not represented in DF85). This recon company, plus the lead battalion of the regiment (reinforced with an attached company of tanks/infantry as applicable) plus an engineer platoon (not represented in the game), parts of the regimetal AA company (a couple of ZSU 23-4s) and a single artillery battery builds the regimental advance guard.

This Advance Guard (Or Reconnaisance Detachment if you will) then pushes out a Company (++) sized unit out in front of it (the Reconnaisance Group you talk about). This Company(+) sized unit consists of a cross reinforced Motorrifle/Tank company (w. a platoon of tanks/infantry attached), the Regimental Recon Company, 2 Howitzers, the engineer platoon and the ZSUs (leaving 2 cross reinforces companies plus 4 howitzers in reserve. One of these companies might be tasked with advancing as flank security on a parallel route).

The Advance Guard then pushes a further subunit out in front of itself (the seperate recon patrol). This consists of the entire recon company plus a reinforced tank/infantry platoon (reinforced by an engineer squad, plus 1-2 tanks/squads of infantry). The recon company spreads out ahead in "packets" of 1-2 vehicles and scouts out alternative secondary routes and areas of interest, while the reinforced platoon drives down the main route of advance.

But how does this work in practice?

Well, the commander of the lead regiment is listening on the divisional radio net (and perhaps even on the net of the divisional reconnaisance battalion). From this source he might get a hint of what lies ahead of him and he can deploy accordingly. But lets say that the dedicated army/divisional reconnaisance either misses the enemy or the enemy drives into the area/emerges after the reconnaisance have passed through the area, but before the regiment arrives:

-The regimental recon company might begin radioing in contact reports or parts of it might be engaged in outright combat.

-The seperate recon patrol will then try to "open up" the march route if it is blocked by enemy forces or obstacles discovered by the recon company or it might be engaged by enemy forces previously unspotted who are blocking the marchroute with their fire (and perhaps obstacles). If it is unable to do this a sort of pancake effect then happens, as the element coming up from behind reinforces the attack (the rest of the reinforced company, 2 howitzers, the engineers and the ZSUs). If these also fails to breakthrough the rest of the force then comes up and tries again (1-2 reinforced companie(s) plus the rest of the artillery). If they also fail, the Advance Guard will try to hold the enemy, while the regimental commander then decides what to do next. Typically he might try to flank the defenders or if the resistance is especially heavy he might want to switch his advance to another route of march (this has to be OK´ed with the divisional commander though)

Do you see the idea? The regimental commander only commits 1/3 of his assets at most and retains freedom of maneuver with the rest. The Advance Guard also scouts and does reconnaisance of course, but its primary job is to ensure that the regiment (or large parts of it) is not decisively engaged. Each of the above steps gives him the possibility of assessing the enemy force and take appropriate countermeasures without endangering the majority of his forces. This approach also prevents the combat power of the regiment being lost to an ambush or such that hits the regiment while it is still in travel mode on a single road and not spread out. The rest of the division coming up behind this regiment also retains freedom of maneuver.

In defence the principle is the same, only the units fall back on each other instead of advancing.


Quote:1. Is it better to have sources about Soviet Organisation before 1991 or after 1991? I know after the Cold War, much information from the Soviet Army was published.

Depends on the timeframe you are looking for information on ;)
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07-24-2009, 08:21 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-24-2009, 08:23 AM by PincerDK.)
#7
RE: Soviet reconnaissance, artillery, and Air defence
Quote: You are mixing different things up. Let´s look it over:

At divisional and army level the soviet army deploy Reconnaisance Battalions. This consists of 2 companies equipped w. a 50/50 mix of BRMs and BMPs and a single company equipped w. BRDMs. The BRM/BMP have some combat capability from the BMPs missiles and dismounts. They elso employ ground search radar mounted on the BRMs ("Little Fred") and might also organizationally have a platoon of tanks each (used to be PT-76 light tanks, but more modern units might have better vehicles). The BRDM equipped unit has no combat power to speak of and relies solely on "stealth" and on its dismounted scouts sneaking about. Each company might be assigned one major route or area to scout out ahead of its parent formation. The job of this battalion is primarily to scout. It can fight (a bit) but it is not really capable of independent offensive action except against a weak opponent. If they meet any real resistance they radio in the contact and then either stops to monitor the enemy (dansk: Fastholde fjenden) or tries to go around (dansk:Omgå fjenden). The army and division commander can of course reinforce the battalion with extra tanks and motorrifle troops from his lead division/regiment or from an independent Tank Regiment/battalion if he wishes to increase its combat potential, but their primary organisational role remains reconnaisance. As a rule of thumb these units are far out ahead of the combat regiments and don´t really have much to do with them most of the time. Ideally their job will be to get behind the enemy frontline (especially the "stealthy" BRDMs) where they will then begin to send in reports about such things as helicopter FARPs, supply dumps, HQs, enemy reserves, ballistic missiles and suchlike.

I agree.

Quote: Then you have the regiments of they division. This comes in either the Motorrifle or Tank variety. The lead regiment(s) of the division will typically be reinforced with divisional artillery and engineer support. This (or these) regiments will build the divisional Advance Guard. Either of these regiment types has a reconnaisance company with a platoon of mixed BRM/BMPs and a platoon of BRDMs (this unit is not represented in DF85).

I agree. :) although I thought about adding it, could be nice to have a regimental reconnaissance.

Quote: This recon company, plus the lead battalion of the regiment (reinforced with an attached company of tanks/infantry as applicable) plus an engineer platoon (not represented in the game), parts of the regimetal AA company (a couple of ZSU 23-4s) and a single artillery battery builds the regimental advance guard.

I agree that the lead battalion is the main building block for the advance guard, and that it is reinforced with an attached coy of tanks/MR troops and an engineer platoon and parts of the regimental SAM/SPAA coy (although it probably also would have 9K31's/SA-9's but that depends on the regimental commander and isn't a matter of discussion :whis:) ).

I don't think the recon coy is part of the advance guard on a tactical march, rather it is performing recon 25 km's (or less) in front of the regiment as a kind of second recon layer with the first being elements from the divisional recon battalion.
although it is possible, I don't think it would be likely.


Quote: This Advance Guard (Or Reconnaisance Detachment if you will) then pushes out a Company (++) sized unit out in front of it (the Reconnaisance Group you talk about). This Company(+) sized unit consists of a cross reinforced Motorrifle/Tank company (w. a platoon of tanks/infantry attached), the Regimental Recon Company, 2 Howitzers, the engineer platoon and the ZSUs (leaving 2 cross reinforces companies plus 4 howitzers in reserve. One of these companies might be tasked with advancing as flank security on a parallel route).

Aren't you confusing it with the "forward security element"?
if you are, then I agree with that it consists of a cross reinforced MR coy/tank coy, 2 howitzers (or a battery of 6 if the advance guard is reinforced with a battalion of 18 pieces), engineer platoon, and that the coy's (or platoons) perform flank security.

Quote: The Advance Guard then pushes a further subunit out in front of itself (the seperate recon patrol). This consists of the entire recon company plus a reinforced tank/infantry platoon (reinforced by an engineer squad, plus 1-2 tanks/squads of infantry). The recon company spreads out ahead in "packets" of 1-2 vehicles and scouts out alternative secondary routes and areas of interest, while the reinforced platoon drives down the main route of advance.

again, aren't you confusing it with a "Combat Reconnaissance Patrol"?
and again if you are, I don't think, it would have a whole recon coy, probably only a platoon of tanks and some engineer support and NBC support.

Quote: But how does this work in practice?

Well, the commander of the lead regiment is listening on the divisional radio net (and perhaps even on the net of the divisional reconnaisance battalion). From this source he might get a hint of what lies ahead of him and he can deploy accordingly. But lets say that the dedicated army/divisional reconnaisance either misses the enemy or the enemy drives into the area/emerges after the reconnaisance have passed through the area, but before the regiment arrives:

I agree to it all, although i have wondered about what the armies have for reconnaissance :conf:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2h8ckud&s=3
This picture tells about whole recon regiments? haven't seen or heard anything about a whole recon regiment.

Quote: -The regimental recon company might begin radioing in contact reports or parts of it might be engaged in outright combat.

well agree :)

Quote: -The seperate recon patrol will then try to "open up" the march route if it is blocked by enemy forces or obstacles discovered by the recon company or it might be engaged by enemy forces previously unspotted who are blocking the marchroute with their fire (and perhaps obstacles). If it is unable to do this a sort of pancake effect then happens, as the element coming up from behind reinforces the attack (the rest of the reinforced company, 2 howitzers, the engineers and the ZSUs). If these also fails to breakthrough the rest of the force then comes up and tries again (1-2 reinforced companie(s) plus the rest of the artillery). If they also fail, the Advance Guard will try to hold the enemy, while the regimental commander then decides what to do next. Typically he might try to flank the defenders or if the resistance is especially heavy he might want to switch his advance to another route of march (this has to be OK´ed with the divisional commander though)

I agree, if we are talking CRP's, FSE's, and AGMB's.
But are you suggesting that the names are different but their task is the same.

Separate Reconnaissance Patrol = Combat Reconnaissance Patrol
Reconnaissance group = Forward security element
Reconnaissance Detachment = Advance Guard (Main Body)

if you are, then I agree to all of it, with some changes. ;)


Quote: Do you see the idea? The regimental commander only commits 1/3 of his assets at most and retains freedom of maneuver with the rest. The Advance Guard also scouts and does reconnaisance of course, but its primary job is to ensure that the regiment (or large parts of it) is not decisively engaged. Each of the above steps gives him the possibility of assessing the enemy force and take appropriate countermeasures without endangering the majority of his forces. This approach also prevents the combat power of the regiment being lost to an ambush or such that hits the regiment while it is still in travel mode on a single road and not spread out. The rest of the division coming up behind this regiment also retains freedom of maneuver.

The reason, why you, in some ways shouldn't underestimate soviet tasking? Many ways they don't come close to western military, but in some areas, they truly excel in providing excellent alternatives. IMHO. ;)

Quote: In defence the principle is the same, only the units fall back on each other instead of advancing.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=nnljbb&s=3

something like this ?
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07-24-2009, 08:34 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-24-2009, 09:45 AM by JDR Dragoon.)
#8
RE: Soviet reconnaissance, artillery, and Air defence
The names don´t matter (you see them reported differently in each translated western publication anyway). What matters is the principle of how the regiment protects itself on the advance and defence. Namely by pushing out smaller and smaller combined arms forces in front of itself.

At army level the soviets employ a mechanized reconnaisance battalion plus signals intelligence/EW units and Spetznaz (all these units combined might be what is termed a "Regiment"). Most of these are dedicated to fighting the "Deep" Battle" in the enemy rear though.
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07-24-2009, 10:28 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-24-2009, 10:32 PM by PincerDK.)
#9
RE: Soviet reconnaissance, artillery, and Air defence
Quote:The names don´t matter (you see them reported differently in each translated western publication anyway). What matters is the principle of how the regiment protects itself on the advance and defence. Namely by pushing out smaller and smaller combined arms forces in front of itself.

Of course, to uphold momentum.

Quote:But does that mean that the different units (Recon group etc.) complement the regimental advance guard or do you mean they replace THE actual battalion sized advance guard?

But then you do suggest that the recon detachment, reconnaissance group and separate recon patrol is replacing the advance guard and its subunits.
Well okay, not exactly replacing it, but the advance guard/recon detachment have the same task; to provide security/reconnaissance for the lead regiment(s)
Its just two names for the same kind of unit.

The problem is, since it is written in the reconnaissance chapter, it would think it would be unlikely for the authors to write about the same thing twice, since they have already mentioned it in the chapter "Meeting Engagement"

This is what is written under the subchapter "Control of Reconnaissance Elements" (where recon detachments, groups and SRP are mentioned)'.

"Soviet divisions and regiments have dedicated reconnaissance organisations, i.e., a reconnaissance battalion for the division and a reconnaissance company for the regiment. These units gather and produce intelligence which will assist the accomplishment of the division and the regimental mission. At division, reconnaissance elements are controlled by the chief of reconnaissance and supported by a small staff. The division's long-range reconnaissance company can operate up to 100 km forward of the main body; other elements of the battalion operate up to 50 km forward. Regimental reconnaissance company elements may operate up to 25 km forward and closer once contact is established.
During tactical movement, a divisional reconnaissance battalion, usually moves one or more hours ahead of leading elements of the division. The division normally moves on two or more routes and the reconnaissance battalion organisation depends on the division formation. The battalion may form one or two reconnaissance groups and several patrols; however this depends on the combat situation and the overall mission of the division. Even when the reconnaissance battalion advances on more than one route, movements of each element are controlled by the battalion commander. At each successive objective he establishes a reconnaissance base, from which he directs the employment of reconnaissance groups and patrols, operating in advance of the base. Radio contact is maintained with the division headquarters.
The battalion is expected to be able to implement supplementary reconnaissance missions, or to make changes in the direction or rate of advance. He is also expected to request additional support, from the main body if his unit, becomes too heavily engaged with an enemy unit.
Generally, elements of the battalion seek to avoid sustained combat with an enemy force. They cross open areas at high speeds and cross closed and broken terrain by bounds, moving from one vantage point to another. At the vantage points, they may dismount from the vehicles to get better observation. Upon contact with an enemy element, reconnaissance subunits attempt to use feints and flanking maneuvers to determine the strength, composition, and disposition of enemy elements.
Whenever possible reconnaissance subunits bypass enemy groupings and continue the advance along the prescribed route.
Engineer reconnaissance detachments and chemical defense specialists usually accompany reconnaissance patrols at division and regiments. Other specialists accompany reconnaissance patrols as needed.

Reconnaissance Organizations (this is the part where the different units are mentioned)

To obtain timely intelligence Soviet commanders, sometimes organize and dispatch reconnaissance groups. These groups may be formed by the commander from army to regiment. A reconnaissance group is a temporary tactical subunit formed for the execution of a specified reconnaissance mission. The composition of such groups, usually reinforced platoons or companies, depends on the situation and the assigned mission.
In an attack a division could form a reconnaissance group, consisting of a motorized rifle company, reinforced with a platoon of tanks, and engineer and NBC reconnaissance squads. Reconnaissance groups conduct reconnaissance by observation as well as by more active methods such as ambushes and raids. In an extreme case, they may destroy covering subunits of a withdrawing enemy.
Along with their primary reconnaissance mission, they may be assigned missions to destroy enemy means of nuclear attack and to seize and hold important terrain features in the enemy rear area until the arrival of the attacking force.


A reconnaissance detachment is a temporary tactical subunit of reinforced company or battalion strength. The basic subunit (motorized rifle or tank) is almost always reinforced with elements of the other arm to make it a balanced combat force.
Depending on the mission, specialized reconnaissance detachments, such as artillery, engineers, or NBC may be assigned or attached. A reconnaissance detachment of battalion strength is assigned a zone approximately 7 kilometers wide and 35 kilometers in depth, or it may be assigned an axis of advance.
A reconnaissance detachment fulfills it mission by observation, by ambush and by direct attack if necessary.


A separate reconnaissance patrol is a temporary tactical subunit composed of a reinforced squad or a platoon. It normally is assigned a specific objective and/ or route instead of a zone. A squad sized patrol may operate away from its parent unit at a distance of 8 kilometers during the day and 3 kilometers in night,
While a platoon-sized patrol may operate at a distance of up to 15 kilometers during the day and up to 5 kilometers at night. A separate reconnaissance patrol accomplishes its mission by observation, but may engage in limited combat if necessary. Limited combat in this case means that the patrol may use reconnaissance by fire to determine enemy positions when no other means are available. The separate reconnaissance patrol also is frequently used to capture prisoners for intelligence exploitation.


Bold markings are sentences in which it seems IMO that reconnaissance detachments, reconnaissance group and SRP are not the same elements as those of an advance guard.

Håber du kan bruge det til noget. ;)

People are free to use the material from FM-100-2-1, this is just two subchapters in the reconnaissance chapters, but all of it is straight from the book.
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07-25-2009, 04:19 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-25-2009, 04:24 AM by JDR Dragoon.)
#10
RE: Soviet reconnaissance, artillery, and Air defence
The principle is still the same, whether you call it a "Reconnaisance Group" or what ever you choose to call it ;): The commander (from army to regiment) organizes a self contained combined arms detachment that can fight independently while keeping the rest of his force in reserve thus preserving freedom of maneuver. Its job is to recon (a bit) but is primary mission is to protect the unit behind it and facilitate its manuever and commitment at a decisive point in time and space. How they choose to compose the detachment depends on what its mission is, what forces are available and the overall tactical and operational stance of the unit sending out the detachment. And if the detachment itself is a large one (or tasked with a mission independently of its parent unit) it might also choose to send out a combined arms subunit in front of itself in order to facilitate its freedom of maneuver and so on. It is the principle more than the exact terminology one needs to understand.
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