Scen Design

Mr. Guberman · 08-01-2009, 05:41 AM,

Recognizing the latest discussion regarding scens, I thought it would be interesting to wonder....and since I cannot find a previous discussion amongst scenario designers (including those who design only for themselves, "inside each of us is a designer"): What are the favorite to least favorite parts of scen design for each.

I propose these catagories: Map creation (and we'll leave it at that); OOB creation (ditto); Scenario file creation (I propose subsets: Deployment; Victory Condition establishment and turn length; Conditions; and Historical Commentary)

so we would see:

1) Map creation
2) OOB creation
3) Scenario file creation

...in preferred order
...realising that subset Scenario file creation would be broken out:

1,2, or 3) Scenario file creation
a) Victory Conditions and turns
b) Conditions
c) Historical Commentary

....in any order

Mine would be, as a guinea pig:

1) OOB creation (really like to get them as historically accurate as possible...to me that is the very most satisfying part...ad hoc units and all)
2) Scenario file creation
a) Conditions (as they are usually the easiest...but I use "usually" guardedly)
b) Historical Commentary (when I'm ready, I love it...but it usually takes a while to get there. When it is done...it should describe the coming fury accurately)
c) Victory Conditions and turns (I'm lousy at this...and rework often)
3) Map creation (love them when they're done...but absolutely hate doing them)

...anyone think of something I've not included...propose them, but I'm trying to be as general as possible as there are a multitude of subsets amongst all of the above.

Cheers and hope to generate some interest...there's a lot of you cats who I have spoken with and designed with...and many who I have not, but who put out wonderful work.

Cheers
Curt

Mr. Guberman · 08-01-2009, 05:44 AM,

doh!!! Forgot Deployment (in scen creation)...

it would be b) followed by the other two

for real...doh
cheers

Huib Versloot · 08-01-2009, 09:35 PM,

1) Map creation
Hate it. However reproducing the topographical features of the time in the greatest possible detail is vital for a good scenario. It is an area where you can't afford to compromise.

2) OOB creation
Fun in the beginning but often a frustrating journey to find all the info you wished, especially late war German oobs. If you have all the historical oobs at hand it is fun creating them.

3) Scenario file creation. The only part I really like. Both the researching, defining the scope. The latter is often "the first idea" that springs in your mind when you are readin and think: hey this could be a nice CS scenario.

...in preferred order
...realising that subset Scenario file creation would be broken out:

1,2, or 3) Scenario file creation.
a) Victory Conditions and turns; these are the easy parts
b) Conditions; this aint too difficult either, I just follow history, although one should not follow the CS visibility table IMO. Sometimes you see those scns where the designer sets visibility to 25 because it was a sunny day or something. This way various units all over the map will spot for eachother in a weird way. Don't go over a visibility of 10 as a rule of thumb I would say (excluding desert scns).

c) Historical Commentary: I hate this part and it makes me sweat. Although I'm an historian and not a bad writer, anything I had to write always made me sweat in my armpits... The result can be rewarding but often it is not easy to make a summary of the events in a few sentences. Lately I get lazy and ask David Galster to do it or to correct my writings even if I could do it myself and sweat a little more.

In short: I hate most things about scn designing. The end result mostly makes up for the struggle though.

Dan Caviness · 08-01-2009, 10:51 PM,

Hey Curt:

The best part of scenario designing for me is mapmaking.
Must be a frustrated cartographer or distant relative of Mercator/Vespucci or something along those lines. I think if they had locked me in a room with 250,000 hex shaped blocks as a child I'd still be there without ever testing the door handle... cheers

I seem to have no end of patience with the map files and just keep coming back to them...adding complexity...structure...nuance...and I guess the thrill is creating your own world to play in.

The worst part for me is constructing OOBs. The engine is great and allows you to do some good work but it's labor intensive and you spend an inordinate amount of time getting commanders, transports, etc, all lined up. The new CS OOB is better than the old Talonsoft version, but it's still many nights getting one close to right. This is the area where you'll get the most scrutiny, and keeping your SS-Sturmscharführer's straight from your Sergeant Major's requires real dedication.

Scenario creation is also great fun. It's the payoff for all the work above and I'm usually like a kid in a candy store by then. But kid's in candy stores get stomach aches and that leads to the next...

Beta testing...which is a mixed bag of experience. If you get the right players involved who can help you through constructive yet critical advice and swallow your pride to institute that advice...it makes the pain worth it.

Good creation of any sort requires iteration, and scenario design is nothing but creation. Once your in it, tunnel vision is ineveitable, and you need outside viewpoints to help.

For me at least, I've never been able to call a scenario done and been able to look at it without wincing until I've played it from start to finish, from both sides. That experience, and the experience of others doing the same, gives you the chance to get it right.

One of my favorite authors was Ted (Theodore) Sturgeon. Ted could make or ruin your day if you read the right page at the wrong time. But, Ted spewed endless amounts of print that usually required serious editing help, and without his lifelong relationship with two readers and even more importantly John W Campbell (creator and editor of the old Astounding and Analog pulps) I doubt he'd have sold anything.

Take your beta testers out for dinner.
Buy them steaks.:bow:

Regards,

Dan

Mr. Guberman · 08-02-2009, 04:33 AM,

Huib, Dan,
Thanx for the dialogue.
Huib...I feel your pain...but yes, you read something and it should make a scenario and you go to it. What a myriad of decisions to make...I really like that part, taking the page and making it into a scen...because once I've pinned the scenario down...most of the work is done. The rest of it is just labor...often hard labor.
Dan...beta testers are great, if you have them...but mostly, after having gone through interminable discussions between the tester who likes it and the one who does not...at a point...I just throw them out there. Consequently the "severe criticism" is inevitable...but livable.

Thanx

08-02-2009, 07:18 AM,

Definitely the map making for me.
I sometimes sit outside a pub, looking at the scene and, envisage a battle to cross the bridge nearby, a commando raid at night on the local beach, etc., etc. (The booze in Cornwall helps with the imagination, lol!)
Glint

K K Rossokolski · 08-02-2009, 06:38 PM,

I've been building stuff for amusement for years, but have only the last year or two got into proper historical work. Canberra is a great city for info....the War Memorial (also a GREAT museum), National, ADC and ADFA libraries. Plus my own books. I love the new countries, and hope over the next while to put out some scens covering new ground
I like it all, particularly writing the blurb, but remain strangely tentative about actually putting my stuff on show. The great Guberman has strongly encouraged me recently, and I will follow his example of history first, and if it plays OK that's a bonus.
The main frustration, I find is the essential crudity of the hex map....one can only change direction of anything in 60 deg increments.
And if JP is reading this...love to see some more .map eyecandy, and perhaps a way to combine Terrain features eg Desert + Med would be great in parts of N Africa. Also wish the map elevation could be doubled or tripled.
Another wonderful lot of work done for the club in the Talonsoft days is a massive WWI orbat...what a grand addition if it could be used !!!!

BTW Huib...we have a bit of experience with deserts down our way. Often clear in winter, but any breeze picks up the dust. Summer, heat haze destroys acuity.

And another thing...a good time to raise the H2H Scenario Testing. Despite the efforts of many good men over the years, it remains broke. I know one reason, and Hawk Kriegsman knows another. Firstly,mine...... the acceptance requirements are absurdly high...we are talking about a bloody GAME!!!, not the acceptance test flying of the McDonnellDouglasGrummanBellConsolidatedVulteeBoeingLockheed FBRA-12345, FFS
I won't steal Hawk's thunder, but it has a lot to do with incentives, as I recall the last time this topic was aired.

Hawk Kriegsman · (This post was last modified: 08-03-2009, 12:33 AM by Hawk Kriegsman.)

K K Rossokolski Wrote:I won't steal Hawk's thunder, but it has a lot to do with incentives, as I recall the last time this topic was aired.

Hello KKR,

It certainly used to be that for sure, but after my last play test experiance it is something else all together.

Surfice to say I am most likely done with testing in the H2H section.

However that being said I will always help the designers test their scenarios (Huib, KKR, Curt, Asiaticus, Jason, Don Fox, Chema, Jorge I am talking to you!!).

Thanx!

Hawk