The armed half-track

[Hawk Kriegsman]

Good one Erik. I wonder how long it took to build that roadblock?
More or less than six minutes. ;)

Thanks Ed. It took probably no more or less time than it would to build a light bridge. :whis:

I still will not play someone who uses empty trucks to draw opt fire (they are soft targets and subject to opt fire when in range).

I swear that I have never seen an empty truck get opp fired upon, of course I usually don't have them in harms way wither.

And, the blocks are more rare than anyone will do over the course of their game experience? :chin:

I think the truck issue is much to do about nothing. It does not really work all that well and it is too expensive to do VP wise.

Thanx!

Hawk

[Glint]

Guys, regarding my comment about using trucks to block, (agreed, probably an extremely rare ocurence), I think you maybe missing my point? I am trying to highlight that a hypothetical use of trucks (or anything else) in this context would be a reasonable tactic to use and not gamey play. Perhaps the tactic might prove costly but, if the manouvre ended up creating a win, why not do it?
My point is, some rules maybe cast in stone but there can be 'grey' areas that those rules push aside?
regards
Peter

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Good one Erik. I wonder how long it took to build that roadblock?
More or less than six minutes. ;)

Thanks Ed. It took probably no more or less time than it would to build a light bridge. :whis:

LOL! That pic showed a more sophisticated road block than that caused by some wrecked trucks. Just the line up of tires would take six minutes. :kill:
The scenario designer can put blocks onto road hexes? I don't like to put that into the hands of the players using valuable trucks. :smoke:

Did I ever mention that I hate that new feature of the engineers? :chin:



RR

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Guys, regarding my comment about using trucks to block, (agreed, probably an extremely rare ocurence), I think you maybe missing my point? I am trying to highlight that a hypothetical use of trucks (or anything else) in this context would be a reasonable tactic to use and not gamey play. Perhaps the tactic might prove costly but, if the manouvre ended up creating a win, why not do it?
My point is, some rules maybe cast in stone but there can be 'grey' areas that those rules push aside?
regards
Peter

Peter, I can pile up motorcycles to block line of sight or entire road hexes. I can also do that with dismounted horses.
Hypothetical uses? Yes. :chin:
Gamey. Yes! :)

Is my "ROE" governing the use of trucks, regarding blocking etc, set in stone?
Yes, to me it is. Right is right and wrong is wrong.



RR

[Hawk Kriegsman]

Guys, regarding my comment about using trucks to block, (agreed, probably an extremely rare ocurence), I think you maybe missing my point? I am trying to highlight that a hypothetical use of trucks (or anything else) in this context would be a reasonable tactic to use and not gamey play. Perhaps the tactic might prove costly but, if the manouvre ended up creating a win, why not do it?
My point is, some rules maybe cast in stone but there can be 'grey' areas that those rules push aside?
regards
Peter

Peter I have answered this. I will try again.

I have no problem with it. I don't think it is a gamey tactic and I also don't think it is a good tactics.

You want to put 36 VPs of trucks in my way to keep me from a 25 point objective, by all means do so.

Ed does have a problem with it. He considers it gamey. If you do this to him he will not play you.

Everyone who has popped in on this question has 1 of 3 basic viewpoints.

1: Not gamey go ahead and do it.
2: Gamey, I will not play someone who does this
3: I don't give a flying :censored: I jus want to play the game.

You will get no clear answer, you will not get a concensus.

Best advice I can give is for you to play opponents who think like you do.

Thanx!

Hawk

[Hawk Kriegsman]

LOL! That pic showed a more sophisticated road block than that caused by some wrecked trucks. Just the line up of tires would take six minutes. :kill:

I know it was. It was actually what a blocked hex might look like IMHO.

The scenario designer can put blocks onto road hexes? I don't like to put that into the hands of the players using valuable trucks. :smoke:

Or an engineer can build one in 6 minutes. :whis:

If my opponent wants to lose trucks at an alarming rate I will not stop him.

Did I ever mention that I hate that new feature of the engineers? :chin:

Maybe once.

Thanx!

Hawk

[Huib Versloot]

Strange discussion here:
In play and design, just do "what really happened".
Try to reason from real events to the game not the other way around.

Try to understand that the 6 minutes turn refers to what the manual said units could do in six minutes real time; however a turn is not framed in six minutes.
A turn represents multiple events which do not necessarily take place in the same six minutes, but could well be between 9:00 AM and 11:00 AM for example, or whatever the time is, the designer has decided that the next turn or sequence of events starts.
In such a timespan it is very well possible to build a roadblock, minefield, light bridge etc in real life, in other timespans it might not be. That depends on the actual events the designer wants to represent in his scenario. So nothing holds you back from adding units that can perform tasks that take longer than six minutes. It all depends on "what really happened".

All scenarios work as described above.

[Panzer VI]

IMO Halftracks are useless.Their Machine gun is way too underpowered.It's a shame when an enemy rifle platoon runs across an open hex right in front of the halftrack and all I get is ''no effect'' all the time.A Halftrack should be able to have just as much firepower as a regular machine gun, or atleast let it be able to cause disruptions.

[Jason Petho]

IMO Halftracks are useless.Their Machine gun is way too underpowered.It's a shame when an enemy rifle platoon runs across an open hex right in front of the halftrack and all I get is ''no effect'' all the time.A Halftrack should be able to have just as much firepower as a regular machine gun, or atleast let it be able to cause disruptions.

There are these types of halftracks in East Front.

SPW 251/1 (***) and SPW 250/1 (***) .. these units have the MG stats but also have a higher VP value. 6 per SP as opposed to 3 with the traditional SPW.

Jason Petho

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Strange discussion here:
In play and design, just do "what really happened".
Try to reason from real events to the game not the other way around.

Try to understand that the 6 minutes turn refers to what the manual said units could do in six minutes real time; however a turn is not framed in six minutes.
A turn represents multiple events which do not necessarily take place in the same six minutes, but could well be between 9:00 AM and 11:00 AM for example, or whatever the time is, the designer has decided that the next turn or sequence of events starts.
In such a timespan it is very well possible to build a roadblock, minefield, light bridge etc in real life, in other timespans it might not be. That depends on the actual events the designer wants to represent in his scenario. So nothing holds you back from adding units that can perform tasks that take longer than six minutes. It all depends on "what really happened".

All scenarios work as described above.

On this we will disagree. :chin:
To me, scale is important.
Time is what set the size of the hexes, speed of the units, and should have been a determining factor in what a unit could do in a given turn (of six minutes).
I believe the new Matrix team lost the scale of time. Will we be getting engineers that can build airfields or harbors in a turn? If scale is unimportant and we need to use the planes that don't fly and the bathtub naval units, we will need harbors and airfields to be built? :rolleyes:
Yes, I know the argument is from the absurd. But, it is also absurd to think that scale is no longer important.
I don't think the new direction of "time is relative to the situation you are modeling" is the way to go.
Most early scenario designs covered brief snipits of parts of battles. It was rare to see an entire operation covered by the early designers?

It is one of the reasons I do not like to play anything (except team games) that are more than forty turns. Even then it is pushing it.
There are many offerings of "operational" sized games, TAOW and Panzer Campaigns come to mind, that cover larger areas and longer blocks of time.

I do not like the premise of having to think in abstract concerning the game scale. I see each scenario as a piece of a fight in an operation and not an operational piece that covers multi hours or days.

And, before I get the "but even now they cannot do it in six minutes", I know. Trying to make it "slide" even more just takes it away from the intended parameters even further. So the argument does not fly? At least with me it won't. :smoke:



RR