Bolt out of the Blue 4.4

[Aaron]

Thanks JDR, i was pretty sure it didnt have thermal but didnt know it didnt have the box.

Aaron

[Aaron]

Just a quick update, were close, damn close..........................i couldnt be any happier after the last couple adjustments. Updated the values on page 4 of this thread, for one helo att values went up, if u use them correctly as in move them forward 10 hexs, shoot twice and then move them back 10 hexes they work well, but when u try to do what the US did a couple years ago in Iraq and send the Apaches in alone u will find your battalion of 18 just got alot smaller in 2 hours, it might even bring tears to yours eyes thinking of all the loved ones that just lost their sons or daughters because of u, yes i said daughters........... That was one thing, the second was assault values on tanks, if your playing the WP side and want a gun battle with the NATO tanks u will lose but if u get in close and assault its not unusual to c 6 T-80Bv lost to 5 Leo2A4. We feel this is very realistic. The 3rd thing is Aircraft, well in the MC series i call it Aircrap because i dont feel its a good representation at all but we deal with what we got. Ill start with what i think and that is a squadron of 24 AC in combat over Central Europe for 48 hours could fly about 10 missions, now i believe after that time period with the number of missions flow that the squadron could have 6-8 AC left. This is actually been the hardest thing to represent, but its gotten alot better. More AC are being shot down now. I know alot of people have complain in the past they dont cause enough casualties, but after testing when bombing a INF BN thats spotted and deployed usually incurs about 50 casualties. When bombing the same unit thats spotted and in travel mode is incurring 120 casualties. I find this to be pretty good for the hand thats been handed us. I think alot of the complaints come from people bombing units that r unspotted and thus incurring 25 or so casualties.

Aaron

[Spooky]

Aaron as for Air unit you should look on the Jihad 2004 scenario there the air units are devided into 4 or 6 plane elements with their attack values greatly increased. But this would really hard to implement to show the real oob as this will be hard work to input all of those units into the game;)

[Aaron]

Put together a new Italian unit box from one of the camo patterns they used in the late 80s.

[attachment=2371]

Austrian Resources are rare but i did find a decent pic of a Saurer that i played with last night, its not the greatest in my opinion but i think its better than what we had.

[attachment=2372]

Saurer Command vehicle, notice i still dont have an officer to layer over it, i think im going to search threw the other armies and find one thats not being used and use it.

[attachment=2373]

Aaro

[Aaron]

Aaron as for Air unit you should look on the Jihad 2004 scenario there the air units are devided into 4 or 6 plane elements with their attack values greatly increased. But this would really hard to implement to show the real oob as this will be hard work to input all of those units into the game;)

As i have it adjusted now if i had 4-6 plane units, they wouldnt be around after 3 missions.:)

To make up for it attack values have slid up a bit. On average 65 casualties on a deployed unit.

Latest numbers that im running a test with.

BO AIR 15 4 48 1 0 42 1 0 0 1 0 7 0 0 320 Su-25 Frogfoot
BO AIR 45 4 45 1 0 39 1 0 0 1 0 7 0 0 320 Su-24M Fencer
BO AIR 45 4 39 1 0 36 1 0 0 1 0 6 0 0 320 MiG-27D Flogger
BO AIR 30 4 36 1 0 36 1 0 0 1 0 6 0 0 64 MiG-27K Flogger
BO AIR 15 4 36 1 0 33 1 0 0 1 0 6 0 0 64 Su-17M4 Fitter
BO AIR 30 4 33 1 0 33 1 0 0 1 0 6 0 0 64 Su-22 Fitter
RA AIR 6 4 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 9 0 0 320 Su-24MR Fencer
RA AIR 9 4 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 9 0 0 64 MiG-25R Foxbat
RA AIR 4 4 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 9 0 0 64 MiG-21RF

BO AIR 24 6 57 1 0 42 1 0 0 1 0 8 0 0 64 A-10A
FI AIR 24 6 48 1 0 42 1 0 0 1 0 7 0 0 320 F-16
FI AIR 24 6 48 1 0 42 1 0 0 1 0 7 0 0 320 CF-18
BO AIR 16 5 42 1 0 39 1 0 0 1 0 6 0 0 320 Jaguar
BO AIR 16 5 36 1 0 36 1 0 0 1 0 6 0 0 64 Jaguar (FR)
FI AIR 16 6 42 1 0 39 1 0 0 1 0 6 0 0 64 Harrier
BO AIR 18 5 39 1 0 39 1 0 0 1 0 6 0 0 64 F-4F
BO AIR 24 5 33 1 0 36 1 0 0 1 0 6 0 0 64 Alpha Jet
RA AIR 3 5 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 9 0 0 320 RF-4C
RA AIR 4 5 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 8 0 0 320 Mirage F1-CR
RA AIR 3 5 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 8 0 0 320 Jaguar R

When bombing a MECH BN u on average lose 1 AC almost every time,every once in a while 2 or 0 but almost always 1. And even with the AAA values as high as they are for AAA/SAM units they almost never shoot down more than 1 AC either, every once in a while 2 but usually 1. Now bombing units that r off by themselves r easy with light loses, what u have to watch out for is a unit with a bunch of other units around it, now u can c 3-4 AC lost.

Aaron

[Spooky]

I know but if you set their attack values to over 150 they should do some realistic damage and i think you can set a replacement rate for them right???:) So player will have to rest his Air units:)

[JDR Dragoon]

I know but if you set their attack values to over 150 they should do some realistic damage and i think you can set a replacement rate for them right???:) So player will have to rest his Air units:)

What is "realistic"? In Desert Storm the most effective aerial armor killer (A-10 firing AGM65 Maverick) needed to fire off on the order of 3-4 missiles in order to ensure a "kill" on average (we know this from BDA which we can then cross reference with the number of missiles fired on a given mission). The idea about "death from above" smashing ground units deployed and dispersed in the field wholesale (as opposed to travelling on a road in march column) just doesn´t happen: Not in WW2 and not today.

[P.Ako]

Just for curiosity, Aaron, are you going to include the Austrian M-60 that i modified?

[Aaron]

Yes P ive already included the M-60 into the folders, thanks. I kinda agree with JDR on this one, Iraq was a much easier theater for the AF also, Central Europe would have been much different and for the most part everyone would have been using iron bombs not smart bombs, there just wasnt enough of them in 1989, and the ones they had would probably have been used up early in the war and used on interdiction and deep strike missions not ground support so your accuracy on bombing missions has gone way down. Theres a big difference between bombing a deployed unit and a unit in travel mode, on average an F-16 unit is giving 65 casualties to a deployed INF BN thats not dug in but u put that same unit in travel mode and 2 airstrikes have a very good chance of wiping out the whole BN of 450 men, at minimum it will take at least 300 with 2 strikes. Now this number does change depending on what type of vehicle the infantry are in with the changing of all the values u will c less casualties in a Warrior equip unit. I feel this isnt perfect but its not to bad.

I do have replacement numbers on them already, i understand the 4-6 plane structure ive seen it but i dont believe they had as many AC getting shot down either, those 4-6 plane units probably lived threw the war in mine a 4-6 plane unit as of now would be good for alot of VP points especially with values at 150. That squadron of 24 AC wont be that way for long, if u dont rest them there will be a bunch of 4-6 plane units:)

Just ran another test with alot of the SA values up another 3 points and now the casualties are reaching into the 70s. Bombed the hell out of a division in travel mode, on average attacking tank Bn u c 9-12 vehicle lost, bombed a Soviet ENG Rota with 18 A-10s, needless to say theres no more ENG Rota, all 105 men killed. Is this to much,im not sure and im sure everyone would have a different opinion but the numbers above im goin to pass on to midge to plug into the scenario and c what he thinks. I do kinda like where there at right now.

Another note is all the units in the above division were being spotted by Partisans (SF), didnt think partisans could spot but they r

I mentioned before if theres anyone out there who wants to give it a go ill get all the up to date files to ya to c what u think. It would help us out a great deal getting someone elses opinions.

Aaron

[JDR Dragoon]

Is this to much,im not sure

Sounds pretty close to possible the results spread in the stock game imho.