Combat unit removal

[Skryabin]

Sorry, there was an answer to this question on forum probably, just couldn't find.

Is it ok to exit from the map a combat unit if it was cut off from all other forces in open space between two rivers and is going to just die for sure under artillery fire?

Dmitriy

[Stryker]

In my opinion, absolutely not. there is no hard and fast rule from what I can remember but I would consider it ungentlemanly conduct and not in the spirit of the game.

Someone did that to me many years ago when I closed in on 6 150mm batteries and tractors with HQ's in support.... just as I closed in for the kill my opponent removed them from the board denying me very many victory points which meant I lost the battle.... I never played him again....

Of course, if someone did want to do this and agreed it up front, then I would choose to play or not with that in mind.

just my .02

[Skryabin]

Someone did that to me many years ago when I closed in on 6 150mm batteries and tractors with HQ's in support.... just as I closed in for the kill my opponent removed them from the board denying me very many victory points which meant I lost the battle.... I never played him again....

It was interesting to take a look at this situation from another side :chin:

Thank you,
Dmitriy

[Montana Grizz]

I most assuridly agree with Rudolph.

There may well be a legitimate strategy in seeking out and destroying enemy artillery and they should not be removed from the map.

However, I have a long-time opponent that does not care if any unit is removed from the map. His reasoning being that they no longer pose a threat to his forces and are usually not important in terms of his strategy for a victory.

This is the only person I have ever had this agreement with and I do not recall every having taken advantage of the opportunity.

Of course, once having changed many of his soiled diapers may have played a factor in his tendency towards cutting me slack combined with the fact that I have never bested him in a game.

[Chuck10mtn]

Sorry, there was an answer to this question on forum probably, just couldn't find.

Is it ok to exit from the map a combat unit if it was cut off from all other forces in open space between two rivers and is going to just die for sure under artillery fire?

Dmitriy

If you concider it was a surrender, then maybe you could remove it and at the same time not give the points. I personally would never do it, I was just pointing out what may have been thought of.

Chuck

[Skryabin]

If you consider it was a surrender, then maybe you could remove it and at the same time not give the points. I personally would never do it, I was just pointing out what may have been thought of.

No I was just thinking of retreating outside the map :rolleyes: Looks pretty realistic to me. But if this is considered as "ungentlemanly conduct and not in the spirit of the game" I agree to show respect and follow the rules :)

In terms of points if some unit decide to surrender maybe it would be fair to half it's VPs (if opponent does not mind of course)? Just a thought too...


Dmitriy

[Kool Kat]

No I was just thinking of retreating outside the map :rolleyes: Looks pretty realistic to me. But if this is considered as "ungentlemanly conduct and not in the spirit of the game" I agree to show respect and follow the rules :)


Dmitriy

Dmitriy:

IMHO, I would consider the removal of combat units, for any reason other then to fullfill exit victory conditions, to be cheating.

Look at it this way. Suppose you command a force that begins a scenario with a Minor Victory? And you are looking for ways to "maximize" your chances to win? Anytime enemy forces stumble into your units and start to gain the upper hand, you simply retreat your losing combat units and exit them from the map. You deny these victory points to your opponent. You can then "scoot and hide" for the majority of the scenario turns and claim a Minor Victory? :chin:

Ungentlemanly conduct... yes!
Not in the spirit of the game... yes!
Cheating... yes!

If any of my opponents utilized this "tactic," I would not play them again. :angry:

[Mike Abberton]

Your best bet is to discuss it with your opponent beforehand. Some don't care, some will blacklist you for it.

If necessary to keep everyone happy, awarding half the points (added manually to the score after final turn resolution or removing half and letting half get killed) seems a reasonable compromise to me.

Either way, I would stress discussing the matter before removing the units.

Mike

P.S. While keeping the points "on the board" may be important for scoring purposes, it always seemed strange for a unit to be forced to sit and die, just cause the map is too small. I generally don't care one way or the other if my opponent removes units stuck in that type of situation. If removing this arty screwed up the scoring that badly, I'd rather chuck the scenario (i.e. never play it again) than the player.

P.P.S I will say that if an opponent just simply started removing units wholesale (without an exit hex) because the victory conditions were borked and guaranteed a victory or a draw by not engaging, then I'd probably say something about it and/or blacklist the player. But not just because he removed some trapped unit(s) pinned against the map edge. Those are two completely separate sets of circumstances in my opinion. No problem if others disagree, though.

[Kool Kat]

Mike:

I agree that the "best" solution is to communicate with your opponent prior to scenario start on the specific ROEs. :) Regular and transparent communications with your opponent is a proactive way to head off any potential disagreements? :chin:

While keeping the points "on the board" may be important for scoring purposes, it always seemed strange for a unit to be forced to sit and die, just cause the map is too small.

Maybe? I see your point about a unit trapped on the map edge... but if the unit was retreated there due to your opponent's actions, is defending a critical hex, or it just was a poor movement / placement choice on your part... should not your opponent have access to the "trapped" unit's victory points, as in the spoils of victory?

P.P.S I will say that if an opponent just simply started removing units wholesale (without an exit hex) because the victory conditions were borked and guaranteed a victory or a draw by not engaging, then I'd probably say something about it and/or blacklist the player. But not just because he removed some trapped unit(s) pinned against the map edge. Those are two completely separate sets of circumstances in my opinion. No problem if others disagree, though.

I agree! Wholesale removal of combat units is a BIG "no-no." :P
Would like to see more discussion around the trapped / pinned units on the map edges. I'm still not convinced these units warrant a removal from the map per my earlier comments.

Alls fair in love and war? :whis:

Interesting discussion!

[keif149]

How about a poll on this topic?

Might be interesting.