penetration and crew quality

Weasel · (This post was last modified: 11-17-2009, 03:02 AM by Weasel.)

In my game of ET against VB, his panthers were easily able to penetrate my T34/85 and SU85 at 2000m frontal. However, in my ET game with my Germans, my panther turrets (fortification) are bouncing rounds at 1700m off T80s, although still penetrating but bouncing more then in the first fight.

From what I can see the only difference here is that VB troops were elite with an added troop quality %, while my Germans are regular grunts.

So, does the crew quality somehow effect the penetration of the round? It shouldn't, but it kind of looks like it does.

Stonefire · 11-17-2009, 03:48 AM,

Weasel Wrote:In my game of ET against VB, his panthers were easily able to penetrate my T34/85 and SU85 at 2000m frontal. However, in my ET game with my Germans, my panther turrets (fortification) are bouncing rounds at 1700m off T80s, although still penetrating but bouncing more then in the first fight.

From what I can see the only difference here is that VB troops were elite with an added troop quality %, while my Germans are regular grunts.

So, does the crew quality somehow effect the penetration of the round? It shouldn't, but it kind of looks like it does.

It maybe a long shot, as I only have my poor old memory to rely on. But once opon a time in the past I think I read that better quality crew often get kills than lesser quality crews - simulating their better knowledge of the weakness of the enemy tanks, and their better skill to hit those places more often than lesser quality crews

Narwan · 11-17-2009, 06:24 AM,

afaik crew quality affects chances to hit and the possibility to do extra penetration (the message that a weak spot is hit and X amount of extra penetration is done, not to be confused with overpenetration) and not the damage done afterwards.

So they do get kills more often because they penetrate more often (higher hit chance means more chance of a kill shot and higher chance of bonus penetration).

In your games Chris, did both sides have SABOT rounds or were both firing just AP rounds?

Narwan

Weasel · 11-17-2009, 08:32 AM,

Both Sabot.

Weasel · 11-17-2009, 08:33 AM,

Speaking of sabot, is it true that a tank will only fire SABOT at ranges less then 500m, and regular AP over that? If so...HUH?, that doesn't make sense to me.

Narwan · 11-17-2009, 09:13 AM,

Weasel Wrote:Speaking of sabot, is it true that a tank will only fire SABOT at ranges less then 500m, and regular AP over that? If so...HUH?, that doesn't make sense to me.

No it isn't. The game will determine the type of round most likely to do damage to the target at the given range and then runs a crew check to see if they figure it out themselves too. So better crews are more likely to take the right type of round. As sabot rounds usually have the highest penetration these will tend to get picked first, it's a case of the crew going for the 'sure' option.

Maybe the situation you describe stems from 'early' ww2 encounters where sabot rounds have much less range than AP rounds? In that situation the effective penetration of a abot round at ranges over 500m might indeed be lower than that of the AP round. Some german sabot round had an effective max range of only 20 hexes so 500m seems right as the range where they would stop to have more penetration than AP rounds.

Narwan

Cross · (This post was last modified: 11-17-2009, 10:25 AM by Cross.)

With the Panther's 7.5cm L70 gun, at a range of 1700-2000 your going to get a penetration of about 11-10 with AP and 13-12 with sabots. The sabots will get better penetration than the AP out to about 2500m.

With the 500m max for sabots, you are probably thinking of of the German 5cm L42 where the sabot only had a range of 1000m, compared to 2500m for the AP round. Which meant that after about 500m the AP round penetrated better than the sabot. The 5cm L60 sabot was a little improved giving better penentration than the AP round out to about 600m.

Didn't you read my AP Penetration Calculator Weasel? ;)

Imp · 11-17-2009, 12:48 PM,

Crew quality AFAIN does not effect penetration directly but has several effects that contribute to a kill. Namely better rally selection of ammo extra shots & better hit chance due to passing all/more rolls at all ranges, so will hit more often. Close up about 500m the last comes into effect as chance of hitting a weak spot is based on a % of the to hit chance.
So close enough to see the drivers hatch or whatever & accurate enough to hit it hence about 500m normaly.
May also improve chance of a top hit at range from higher elevation unsure though.
However now I have read your post talking 2000m so my thought is diffrent timeframes he had sabot rounds while you dont would account for it.