Vehicle recovery

[Imp]

I was just thinkin like the old SPwaw, if it was a simple terrain imob there was a chance that it might get out after time, sometimes 5 or more turns

See now we are in territoty I know about as used to offroad & without getting help if you dont get unstuck pretty quick you just plain dont. The only exeption is a light vehicle & a couple of shovels on soft ground or snow drifts but now you aare back to the over an hour category. Besides dont take the game so literaly the scale means everything represents many things from combat to terrain immob. No traction, wiped out the transmission, water in the engine, rolled it etc.
You would need sticking effect by vehicle class Jeep truck APC etc & there is a case for motorcycles (& cavalry) becoming unstuck. You either totaled it or didnt but should also check you for injuries & ability to carry on. I would say most people want changes in the way things work without thinking it through just based on gut feeling so think about a bit. Tanks probably most annoying to get stuck its on a river bank tracks spinning digging its own hole or 1 metre down in the mud what is the real chance it will get out unaided. Call in the weasel & a bit of luck & we will say 1 in 10 manage to free themselves. In game terms what is the point you will rarelly see it happen, say you are reckless & stick 3 vehicles a game you might get one mobbile out of the 3 games so effect on play is squat. If you manage to stick more than that well avoid slopes Mud Swamp if have to only move on with first MP. Most like stream rough you are fine if moving slowly 8mph or so which is 4 hexes above that you are taking a gamble & driving through fast. Note this means in fact your chance of getting stuck is very low you can drive over as many rough hexes as you like so long as they are within 4 hexes of your start point & do not have a slope.
As said before this means you probably lost some MP the turn before getting in position to cross, count them as time lost because of the terrain. This also produces bottlenecks correctly upon encountering difficult terrain as everyone bunches up so good gold spot territory.

[klanx171]

SP is a pretty fine balance between a game engine and a reality engine in the sense that it has to model reality to a fair degree but also retain the playability. In this sense a 1 in 3 chance in say 0 to 5 turns would be an acceptable thing. I dont want a major chance for all vehicles to get out but I want that chance as I think that it makes the nod to reality but also alows for some playability. Besides I have seen and played games where more than 3 or so tanks were stuck, a 1 in 3 chance would be a fine thing.

I do note that perhaps as in real life the heavier the thing the harder it is to get out (and more likely to get stuck in the first place) so that lighter vehicles have a better chance to get out than heavier ones. Also this is not just for tanks but all vehicles.

I dont know how much hassle(hoff) this is to code in but in actual game terms this wouldnt unbalance anything as the definition of immobile doesnt have to be a permanent thing, it can be seen as temporary or later permanent (for the duration of the game) which at least (as in SPwaw) allows some possibility for a stuck vehicle to get back in the game.

[Weasel]

You know what I would like to see in SP MBT....chemical weapons. It is nice that all this equipment is sealed and has air purifiers, but it has no game effect. Now a nice cloud of mustard gas rolling across the map would be pretty neat.

[klanx171]

How about the after effects of tactical nuke as well, I mean all the cold war they prepared for stuff like that, why not have that as well.

On another tangent I would like to see a much better tile set for the terrain/buildings etc for SP, its far too drab and very limited and all the maps end up looking somewhat generic once you add buildings etc, the Old SPwaw had an awesome tile set with wrecked planes, power lines or phone lines, dead animals in the fields and a trails which the New SP lacks, it also had dragons teeth and such which made for some very awesome maps, specially once you got the rubble in which gave streets and villages/towns that really bombed out look which is so popular now days.

[Imp]

Changed tack a bit but

Now a nice cloud of mustard gas rolling across the map would be pretty neat.

Using arty as second shell type which is possible have CM can do delivery system max area coverage 5 hexes across I think without playing. If make a high suppresion weapon will disable most troops but will also suppress vehicles. Add high energy kill & will kill some troops also, if someone with programing skills could see how smoke works might be able to make effect last for a few turns & drift with fake wind if any.
As a thought if someone looks at how smoke works could possibly give it a small HE kill to represent WP for some arty smoke.
Without looking at closer though think very difficult if not impossible to do as need high warheadsize for delivery but dont want as increases effect on vehicle.

How about the after effects of tactical nuke as well, I mean all the cold war they prepared for stuff like that, why not have that as well

No idea how to do this & would make the game a bit dull, problem is area of effect & power beyond the game engine plus changes to terrain tiles then there is the emp effect. Also amusingly with most think there was a problem with the delivery system. Due to weight of it firer was in range of effect, whoops someone thought that through perhaps they were going to hire some Japs.

On another tangent I would like to see a much better tile set for the terrain/buildings etc for SP, its far too drab and very limited and all the maps end up looking somewhat generic once you add buildings etc

Any artists out there? probably uses icon tool provided though if had a programer who could find them & how terrain provides cover & protection could make an enhanced tile set. Currently several identical tiles like several pavement types could free up half a dozen for new terrain types like brush etc. The only problem is map generator wont know so for custom maps only.

[Imp]

Besides I have seen and played games where more than 3 or so tanks were stuck, a 1 in 3 chance would be a fine thing

But you shouldnt really even playing large MBT 100 vehicle games rare to get more than 3 stuck. If you do its because you decided the risk was worth the move so took the gamble. 1 in 3 chance of recovery means you will just gamble more you made the choice to risk immobilisation when you moved it. Unless of course you miss clicked, do have a habit of occasionly unloading troops by a building & then driving the APC into it :curse:

[klanx171]

I wasnt thinking MBT more SPww2, lots of tanks zipping around (you should see me and Jad wheeling them out, veritable fleets) and often on less than fabulous terrain.

I suppose the situation I was thinking most was when crossing small streams or when moving through wooded terrain, or such like that where it might get stuck.

I dont normally drive tanks into swamps but nice flat open terrain is not always an option, so things like sand, rough and slopped terrain, small rivers, the odd patch or mud, snow drifts etc are things I do consider if there is no other way around so the small but potential option to get one of them out is something that makes the difference between going in on a chance and no chance at all and not going in, I argue less from reality and more for playability being that much of what is on the map in SP is tank or vehicle.

In the end the way the games plays out is how it is but having a small chance is better than none, it wont reduce my stupidity (eh Rick?) but it will allow me the chance of recover from some of my mistakes.

As for Terrain if I could make em I would, cant we just get them from the old SPwaw?

[Imp]

Dont think SPWAW & MBT tiles are compatible though graphics might be with a pallette change.

Understand what you are saying about terrain but to me thats the whole point makes the terrain something to position for a drive over carefully as in slowly its how you appoach the stuff. As a final note when you used to play the AI how many vehicles have you seen it get stuck. Very rare because it does not take big risks, if you play that way to guess what you dont get stuck very often either. I regard 3 stuck out of 100 vehicles as high & its always a slope that does it or very very rare a stream.

[Walrus]

but it will allow me the chance of recover from some of my mistakes.

You should have to pay for your mistakes.
I agree with Imp and Chris on this...being stuck is being stuck. That's the way it should remain.
Otherwise you reduce the effectiveness of difficult terrain, and therefore reduce the effectiveness of the units that are not hindered by that terrain as good buy options for that battle.
I also like the idea that having to move slowly take into account all the small 'getting stuck' moments where you managed to Weasel wriggle free of the bank / mud etc.
When the game calls you immobilised...that means you are out of the fight as a going concern.

To me what you are asking for is the same as asking for a 'chance' to get casualties back into action...as we know that not all men that are 'killed' in this game are seriously dead, some just become 'combat ineffective'. A 'roll' to see if anyone managed to bandage themselves up well enough to continue the fight would be just silly eh.
That's why it is not in the game.

What you need to do is turn immob off...or just stop driving around ion the mud bro!

As for Terrain if I could make em I would, cant we just get them from the old SPwaw?

I don't think it is such a great idea to mix waw and spcamo file bro...bad form, and IMO creates many issues with PBEM.
Personally, I don't mind the SP MBT and WW2 tiles...there are many more than in the old days, more colours as well. 15 hill heights now instead of the initial boring three.

BTW...you do know that the first three SSI releases of Steel Panthers are not 'WAW' at all don't you?
After SP III was released, the designers handed the code to two different design teams. Matrix created SP WAW and SPCAMO created SPww2 and SPMBT.
From that point, the games have diverged completely, even though they are based on the same basic game code originally.

Cheers

[Vesku]

There's tons of maps where it's practically impossible to avoid tough terrain, like rough slopes running from end to end ... in several rows. When the map is 140 hexes long and you have limited time you just have to cross it with vehicles. Of course you can argue that you shouldn't have limited time in such case eh :)

I've wondered how realistic the rate at which tanks get stuck in rough slopes is, for me it seems that the percentage of stuck is quite high.