Digging In

Aaron · 01-01-2010, 07:44 AM,

Ive searched the forum and believe i have my answer but am looking for more. The Digging In value in the .pdt im assuming is a percentage, so if it says 25 there is a 25% chance the unit will build an improve or entrenched position and if its a Engineer unit this value gets doubled to 50%, correct?
Are there any other modifiers or terrain modifiers to changed this %?

Aaron

Glenn Saunders · 01-01-2010, 08:20 AM,

All Engineer units except for Bridgelayers are capable of:
• Improving the ability to Dig-In

Honestly not sure what the improvement is - might be double the percentage. In any case it is a factor, but not something you can control in the PDT or the game for that matter.

Glenn

Aaron · 01-01-2010, 08:36 AM,

"It is not possible to construct Pillboxes or Bunkers nor is it possible to remove theVacated property of these. Having Engineers in the same hex will double the probability of constructing the new fortification."

Well not exactly sure what this means but it was in the manual.

Aaron

**Mr Grumpy** · 01-01-2010, 09:04 AM,

What i think it is saying i believe is that engineers cannot upgrade a Pillbox/Bunker that has been vacated and downgraded to pillbox/bunker (lowercase) cannot be brought back to full strength PILLBOX/BUNKER as you can with IP's and trench hex's.

"In the Hex Info Area, the Fort type is written in text. When forts such as trenches are written as "TRENCH", in upper case, they are in the "normal" state. When such a fort has been vacated, they will be shown in lower case, and be of lessor protection to the defender."

The calculation of the % chance of digging in uses the basic % value in the PDT and increases it with the following factors.

1) Having Engineers in the same hex will double the probability of constructing the new fortification.

2) The probability that a battalion unit will be successful in its Digging-In operation per turn is three times normal as is the case for combined companies with three or more units. Combined companies with two units have a two times normal probability of completing the Digging-In operation. Single companies and platoons have the normal probability.

I believe that rule 2) applies also to engineers, so in the case of a battalion of engineers would be double the PDT % (rule 1) and a further three times for rule 2.

I am sure Ed and Rick can confirm this is the case.

Glenn Saunders · 01-01-2010, 09:14 AM,

I think that about covers it all Foul.

Aaron · (This post was last modified: 01-01-2010, 09:33 AM by Aaron.)

Foul. Wrote:What i think it is saying i believe is that engineers cannot upgrade a Pillbox/Bunker that has been vacated and downgraded to pillbox/bunker (lowercase) cannot be brought back to full strength PILLBOX/BUNKER as you can with IP's and trench hex's.

"In the Hex Info Area, the Fort type is written in text. When forts such as trenches are written as "TRENCH", in upper case, they are in the "normal" state. When such a fort has been vacated, they will be shown in lower case, and be of lessor protection to the defender."

The calculation of the % chance of digging in uses the basic % value in the PDT and increases it with the following factors.

1) Having Engineers in the same hex will double the probability of constructing the new fortification.

2) The probability that a battalion unit will be successful in its Digging-In operation per turn is three times normal as is the case for combined companies with three or more units. Combined companies with two units have a two times normal probability of completing the Digging-In operation. Single companies and platoons have the normal probability.

I believe that rule 2) applies also to engineers, so in the case of a battalion of engineers would be double the PDT % (rule 1) and a further three times for rule 2.

I am sure Ed and Rick can confirm this is the case.

Well well, i think Foul should write a new instruction manual for the series and add all the things that are not well covered.

So if theres a 25 in the .pdt a full Bn would have a 75% chance to dig in and on the last one u mentioned there with the Engineers they would have a 125% chance of digging in is what im picking up here. Now wonder just about every unit digs in every turn.

Thanks Aaron

edited for proper english, dont want you to think im an Albanian trying to take over the site.:)

Strela · 01-01-2010, 12:55 PM,

Interesting topic.

I have always found it strange that bunkers can not be constructed in game. These are supposedly trenches with overhead cover (logs etc) if my memory serves me right. Considering many campaigns are 2+ weeks the time constraint goes out the window.

I would love to see a rule that said ONLY engineers can build bunkers with the usual caveats that once left empty they go to permanent vacated status etc.

This then makes it easier in some of the longer campaign games or larger maps to have your rear area engineers preparing the next 'solid' defensive line - think Moscow or Minsk etc

Obviously Pill boxes are out due to the fact that they are made out of scarce materials (reinforced concrete) but log bunkers etc should be able to be knocked up in a day or two by skilled engineers...

Just my 2c....

Liebchen · 01-01-2010, 01:52 PM,

Well, Strela, I think that the problem is the manner in which fortifications are constructed in the game engine, i.e. essentially a roll of the die. Being able to construct bunkers would lead to the weirdness of having a bunker possibly appear in two hours, even if the chance were to be set so low that it only rarely happens.

**Mr Grumpy** · (This post was last modified: 01-01-2010, 09:18 PM by Mr Grumpy.)

tazaaron Wrote:Well well, i think Foul should write a new instruction manual for the series and add all the things that are not well covered.

Often the problem is if the person writing the rules also already understands them and it can be difficult the see that they are not clear or can be interpreted in different ways by players, that is were this forum really comes into its own as players like Volcano and RickyB often run tests to confirm just how the engine actually operates and can share that info with the rest of us.

tazaaron Wrote:So if theres a 25 in the .pdt a full Bn would have a 75% chance to dig in and on the last one u mentioned there with the Engineers they would have a 125% chance of digging in is what im picking up here. Now wonder just about every unit digs in every turn.

Yes that is another reason to keep your battalions combined (along with less fatigue) if possible, however it is rare that engineers work as a combined battalion, they normally end up as company's spread along the line in which case the PDT % is just x2.

Some players may have noticed in Volcano's _Alt scenarios the digging in % is very low (i.e. 4% in MG44), it was only when i questioned this i discovered that there were multiple modifiers to the digging in % that could boost this figure substantially, i had forgotten about the bonus for a combined battalion! Dooohhhhhh :rolleyes:

tazaaron Wrote:edited for proper english, dont want you to think im an Albanian trying to take over the site.:)

Glad to hear that, we have enough Albanians at the site already! LOL Big Grin

**Mr Grumpy** · 01-01-2010, 09:32 PM,

Strela Wrote:This then makes it easier in some of the longer campaign games or larger maps to have your rear area engineers preparing the next 'solid' defensive line - think Moscow or Minsk etc

I also enjoy planning and constructing new defense lines in big campaigns, it can be very satisfying when you get it right.

You make a good case for bunker (only) construction in very long scenarios, i am guessing the rule is a blanket one to cover all scenarios most of which would not allow time to build bunkers and the designers did not want to add an exception for the big campaigns, but i am just guessing that might have been the reason? :chin: