Change of Personnel in the H2H Section

[Mr Grumpy]

Jim/Foul, I'll come back to you on that, apppreciate your comments but have a lady here wanting attention now, lol!

What sort of attention????? :smoke: :whis: ;)

[Wolfman]

One of my worries is that people seem to take offence very quickly, as evidenced in recent problems on the forum.
I'm currently doing a couple of playtests of H2H scenario's and to be quite honest I don't like them for a variety of reasons, but I'm reluctant to evaluate them honestly as I don't want to offend the creator and start another flame-war on the forum.

[Antoni Chmielowski]

As long as any criticisms are valid and constructive and are passed off board to the creator then the problem then is with the scenario creator.

I like to playtest HSL`s scenarios and I am not afraid to make positive criticisms and we havent fallen out ...... yet !

One of my worries is that people seem to take offence very quickly, as evidenced in recent problems on the forum.
I'm currently doing a couple of playtests of H2H scenario's and to be quite honest I don't like them for a variety of reasons, but I'm reluctant to evaluate them honestly as I don't want to offend the creator and start another flame-war on the forum.

[Herr Straße Laufer]

The whole concept of H2H is to bring a diverse group of members together to test and evaluate scenarios. Someone you do not know may be able to see something that a regular group of testers have not seen?
Sometimes play testing with the same players creates a scenario that is great for that group of players. That specific scenario depends on the skills and traits of a few? I know I ran into that a few times.
I've had some designs tested and looked good. Then I was asked by a player, who was not part of my regular group of testing volunteers, to try out my design. He found major flaws and revealed the key imbalance to the scenario, that was never seen by the"regular testers". :conf:
And, close friends may have a tendency to not give an honest account of their experience in testing, for fear of hurting feelings. :rolleyes:

For the designers it is a growth problem? For the testers it is "a step back, evaluate, and give an honest opinion" problem. We're not giving awards to designers for simply making a scenario. Heck, we're not even giving awards for getting through to approval. Both working together should reap the rewards of creating a balanced scenario.

Some designers do see critical comments as "attacks against their person". That should not be a H2H or scenario design problem? That sounds like a scenario designer problem?

If someone writes that a scenario they tested had "issues" and the issues are "A, B, C, and D", which could be solved by doing "this or that", I think that is a positive step.
If the designer has a problem with that, it is the designer's problem and not the testers.
What's so wrong with giving an honest comment?

The custodians of H2H do not operate from any motive other than to move scenarios along to final approval. We are not here to evaluate scenarios, unless we test them. We are here to help both the testers and designers to keep moving along. We are here to cull out any abandoned "dead wood". We are here to keep the lines of communication open for all.

We just want balanced scenarios that will help keep the game alive, especially in the area of PBEM.



HSL

[Antoni Chmielowski]

Well said Ed !

[Glint]

Ok, the lady was attended to, lol!

Picking out various comments, in response to my post, I'll precis my thoughts as follows.

'Evenly-balanced scenarios' - does that not require 'evenly-balanced' players to test them? Some so-called 'balanced' scenarios could be won/lost by unevenly-matched players playing them.

'dozens of scenarios that were crap' - a perception by some, others may not agree?

'Seal of approval' - if a designer wishes to get that, fair enough, use h2h.

Players have various abilities. What one scores as a decent scenario, another may not? Which playtesters' remarks are the criteria used to decide a balanced scenario?

As to the lack of testers, I think that will always be the case. Me as an example, - what time I have available, I use in designing a game, play it with someone, then evaluate it. I definitely have no time to playtest others' games. So, does my scenario that maybe a good one, mean no one will play it because it didn't get the 'seal of approval' ?

The Blitz h2h approved database is a fine mission but, I think the majority of members won't bother with it and thus, I fear the contributors will spend a lot of time banging their' heads against the wall and also, eventually will we see 'games reported' being only h2h approved ones that someone can report?
This is why I made mention earlier about the elitism that may occur, that may alienate many fine designers.

Perhaps a routine e-mail to designers that a 'clear-out' is going on and their' scenario is going to be removed, is all that is needed and, would save a lot of time for many contributors?

regards
Peter[/color][/size][/font]

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Peter, in my original post I was responding to both you and the Wolfman. I did not cut and paste. ;)

H2H does serve a purpose. It could be better than it is. It will soon be better than it was.
Designers and testers both need to stay active. They need to communicate. The H2H area will not suffer from good, active, testers who are willing to rate truthfully. Along with designers who want to see their "product" be the best it can be for balanced and fun play.

"I think the majority of members won't bother with it and thus, I fear the contributors will spend a lot of time banging their' heads against the wall and also, eventually will we see 'games reported' being only h2h approved ones that someone can report?"

Well, this is surely an opinion you are entitled to?
This has happened in the past. I hope our "new" parade will not be so rained upon. In fact there have been many who have not tested before that are joining testing now?
Hopefully that, along with the more active H2H custodians, we will cut the stagnation and get the design "wagon" moving. :smoke:
If your time does not permit you to test an other's scenario I am sure that other members will step up and do the task.

"This is why I made mention earlier about the elitism that may occur, that may alienate many fine designers."

Elitism. I honestly do not see it. All members can test a scenario? They just have to sign up for it. If they find a scenario is "crap" then they can rate it that way.
The designer and the testers would not feel so elite then? :rolleyes:

I remember my very first scenario design. About three designs later I tried to help out players in a tournament that could not get an EF scenario to play properly in their e-mail exchanges. My scenario replaced the EF scenario. The first comment I heard was "this sucks" from the one player and "this is awful" from the other. :(
It was as balanced and similar in size to the EF scenario. It was just not their "cup of tea". It was not my fault that they could not get the original selected scenario to work.

As a 'designer' I learned a lot from their feedback. LOL!
In actuality I wanted to make better scenarios because of those comments!

Believe me, I do not see an "elite core" taking over the H2H area. Any more than the core of Talonsoft testers who played those games over and over to get them right. I do hope we end up with a diverse group who would be equally as dedicated to the game and not specific designers or testing groups.



HSL

[Glint]

I genuinely wish you guys luck then Ed !

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Thanks Peter.
It's worth a try. :dunno:
Maybe later we'll try to get you involved? ;)
Or, in the least, gain your confidence.



HSL

[Chuck10mtn]

As a person who has been doing a lot of testing scenarios out for designers I have no feelings of elitism. I enjoy helping these people out, will I tell somebody ( designer ) that in my opinion the scenario is bad, yes, But I will have reasons for stating as much, along with what I THINK will help to make it better. If a designer can't take critism then I hope they don't put their designs before H2H for approval. I don't design and have no interest in doing so, but helping people with theirs is fun, when else can you play a game that nobody else has played before. Just my thoughts on why H2H should work.

Chuck