Are scenarios copyrighted?

Montana Grizz · 01-30-2010, 09:54 AM,

I can imagine the stock game scenarios are protected in some manner, but if one were to make a few changes to a stock scenario in an effort to better balance it, would that be legal?

Just wondering?

Pat

**Mr Grumpy** · 01-30-2010, 10:03 AM,

(01-30-2010, 09:54 AM)Montana Grizz Wrote: I can imagine the stock game scenarios are protected in some manner, but if one were to make a few changes to a stock scenario in an effort to better balance it, would that be legal?

Just wondering?

Pat

I cannot speak for CS, but any Panzer Campaign stock scenario can be edited and a H2H or balanced version be produced, HPS encourages this by including an scenario editor in the game.

Both CS and PzC are Tiller creations so i would expect the situation to be the same for CS?

**Big Ivan** · 01-30-2010, 11:04 AM,

Grizz

Long ago when EF and then WF came out under Talonsoft I remember reading that all creations made under their games namely using their editors were the property of Talonsoft. However, the distributions were considered liberal and for use by the general population, but once a scenario was manufactured it was really owned by Talonsoft with all the rights there to and so forth and so on.

I don't know if that pertains to Matrix, but seeing as Matrix bought the exclusive rights to these games and their engines I would assume that anything that is manufactured within them belongs to the owner of the rights to the games in this case Matrix. It only stands to reason.

That is an excellent question though and glad you asked it!!

Maybe someone closer to the inside of Matrix can clarify.

Ivan the Big:smoke:

K K Rossokolski · 01-30-2010, 05:02 PM,

"It only stands to reason."............ John, I 'm not sure I would use this phrase when talking about the law!!

Huib Versloot · 01-30-2010, 10:14 PM,

I don't know who owns the stock scenarios that came with Talonsoft and that we bought by Matrix, I guess Matrix. I know that new scenarios will always belong to the author and Matrix was merely given permission to include them in the updates.

In case of modifying old scenarios, one would have to ask the original scenario designer. If he can't be traced I would just go ahead and mention the changes in the description. If it turns out not to be allowed you can always remove it again.

I for one would not want anyone to modify my scns or use maps without permission as long as I'm active in designing myself.

/H

Jim von Krieg · 01-31-2010, 12:24 AM,

Pat,

Short version of the legalese: All rights are reserved by Talonsoft (bought out by Take Two) and their representative (meaning Matrix) when it comes to scenarios. They own the scenarios and you are allowed to use them for personal use.

In regards to redoing stock scenarios for balance, there is no problem in changing a scenario as long as you re-name it and don't over write the original. Over the years, scenarios have been reworked on many occasions to re-balance them. I know folks have re-worked many that were not originally created for PBEM. I've done it myself for a few.

Regards,

Jim

**Scud** · 02-01-2010, 05:04 AM,

Copyright law is pretty complex. I know it where it pertains to songwriting. First you have to prove the person who "stole" the copyright had access to the song. Thus the reason most publishers won't take unsolicited songs. Then, the song has to be almost exact. Can't be just a few bars or a few lines of a lyric, that's done all the time. If you think you have a case, then lawyers and courts get involved and most of the time the person filing the complaint loses. Most famous and fairly recent exception was George Harrison's "My Sweet Lord" which was almost an exact note for note copy of "He's so Fine". George lost.

I'm fairly certain that most creative works can by copyrighted. In the case of scenarios, merely by posting somewhere in the scenario: copyright [year] [your name], i.e. Copyright 2010 David Bracken. In songwriting that's called a common law copyright. Since the actual filing of a copyright costs money, it's what most writers do when distributing their demos professionally.

Here's the thing, though. Let's say I decided to take one of Huib's scenarios exactly as is and rename it adding my common law copyright in the scenario description. Huib finds out and takes me to court. He could lose, since I copyrighted it and he didn't, or he could win. If he wins, now what? Next step would be figuring out damages. I doubt, in other words, he'd get much, if anything. So, why copyright?

If you use a current scenario as a jumping off point and change it pretty significantly, I personally don't see anything wrong. Wouldn't hurt to ask permission though, just for courtesy's sake, and offer to give credit. It would be a whole lot different, though, if each scenario sold for a buck each and millions of people were signing on to Iscenarios.com to download them.

Dave

junk2drive · 02-01-2010, 05:56 AM,

Most EULAs make it out that you don't own the game and anything you do with it belongs to the maker.

If a game gives you tools, you get creative and decide to share, don't get poopy when someone modifies or steals it.

Like, hey, you put mustard on that hotdog I gave you. I don't like mustard, puke it up now!

Huib Versloot · 02-01-2010, 07:51 PM,

(02-01-2010, 05:56 AM)junk2drive Wrote: Most EULAs make it out that you don't own the game and anything you do with it belongs to the maker.

If a game gives you tools, you get creative and decide to share, don't get poopy when someone modifies or steals it.

Like, hey, you put mustard on that hotdog I gave you. I don't like mustard, puke it up now!

So you are saying everything I wrote in Word belongs to Microsoft???

From the mail exchanges I had with Matrix I know they consider my scenarios to be my intellectual property. As I've said, I've given them permission to distribute them in the stock packages for as long as that has my consent (after all I have not shared in any profit they made by releasing JTCS and people payed for the game, not for the free updates that included my scenarios).
People can talk easily about copying data(as it happens everywhere) but they don't realize how much money can be involved to make a scenario. I have scenarios the have cost me several 100's of $ per scn invested in map material and books. I am glad at the Blitz we have such a polite community where people ask first before using other's material.

huib

**Big Ivan** · 02-01-2010, 11:36 PM,

Good morning folks,

In reference to my statement above, the following note appears on page 239 of the old EFII Manual as supplied with the Talonsoft EFII disk.

First Paragraph:

"Talonsoft grants the buyer of this software package the right to use one copy of the enclosed software program. You may not use it across a network, unless in conjunction with another legitimate copy, rent or lease it, disassemble, decompile, reverse engineer or modify the software in any way. All editors may be used to creat scenarios that may be freely distributed provided that no monitary profit will be required or gained, and scenarios are distributed in a non-commercial manner. Talonsoft has the ultimate right to ALL scenarios created from this software. You may not copy or distribute copies of the enclosed written material.

Second Paragraph:

The inclosed software program, libraries, graphics and all written material are the sole property of Talonsoft Inc and its suppliers and are protected under the copyright laws of the USA and all International Treaties.

Now,
Under the manual that came with the JTCS software it says this on the last page of the book:

"The enclosed software program and its manual are copyrighted. All rights reserved. The original purchaser may print or have a print/copy shop make a printout and/or copy of the manual. Matrix publishing, LLC grants the original purchaser of this software package the right to use one copy of the software program. You may not rent or lease it, disassemble, decompile, reverse engineer or modify the software in any way. All editors may be used to create scenarios that may be freely distributed. All scenario authors hold the ultimate rights to their designed scenarios and Matrix Publishing LLC makes no claim thereof. You may not copy or distribute copies in any media form. Any persons doing so shall be guilty of copyright violation and subject to the appropriate civil or criminal action at the discretion of the copyright holder."

So in essence that is a big change as now the original author holds the rights to any scenario developed using the Matrix editors.
Hope this helps.

Ivan the Big:smoke: