Cheating

[Trident]

Lets say I suspect an opponent is cheating, the PBEM help says press
"1" anytime to evaluate the loads,Quits and Fails, but in my basic security game the data flashes by too quickly to read and when I press 1 the data does not appear, any suggestions? thanks Trident

[Walrus]

Hello Trident

Firstly...accusations of cheating are very serious and never to be posted on the forums.

Either PM, or better to email Chris / Weasel and myself to seek resolution of the matter.

As far as the game mechanics go.
Perhaps you can go into the Preferences and make the 'message delay' time longer...though I am not sure that this will work for the message you are trying to read.
as far as I know, the Basic Security does not keep track of loads, quits etc...that only happens in Full Security.
I may be wrong there though.

One thing to take note of though is that the Load, Quit, Fail data can often get wacky and throw out some very bizarre numbers, so I would be very careful about using that as evidence of cheating anyway.

The procedure here on the SP ladder re. cheating, or suspicion of, is this...

Email us FIRST!

[email protected]
[email protected]

Pass on your information / evidence.
Then sit tight.
We may have data on that player already, or information about the game mechanics that might help make the situation more clear.

Hope that helps.

Walrus

[Trident]

It was a hypothetical, I did not accuse anyone, so in basic security you forfeit this safeguard of comparing Loads, Quits and Fails. I thank you for your input. ---(-

[mosborne]

Hi:
I agree, the information from pressing the 1 key is helpful but not worth accusing some one of cheating. Examples may be that they played the turn on a second computer, have more than one game in a slot, computer crash, etc.

I think one would need to consider the game in total when evaluating cheating. Although these are some examples, please do not assume some one is cheating because you see them, they are only listed as some tail tail signs, and should only raise a flag if they occur often particularly at critcal times.

a) pieces moving away from your artillery shots with no prior knowledge.

b) units that rally far too many times after taking repeated hits.

c) targeting units in ambush that should not have been detected beforehand.

d) opportunity fires that never kill even when the odds are in your favor

e) Units in the game that were thought to be excluded. Not necessarily a cheat since it could be mis-communitcation. An example would be spotter planes and UAVs when no air is expected.

Keep in mind that there are some very good players with 6th sense, so you could be up against one in which case consider it an honor and a lesson.

Also, the game itself has some quirks. For example:

a) Replay will show positions of units that could never had been seen. I find it helpful to do all your fire (or move fire) first befoe doing any repositioning of units.

b) Replay will give audio cues that you wouldn't normally hear (i.e. splinters hitting armor). This can give away position of your units.

c) Machine gun and rifle fire can suppress any tank even from adjacent hexes to the point that they are no longer effective (a bug IMO).

d) Specialized units (commandos for example) do get high rally points.

e) Specialized units do get very low rally points (same as regular units) as well as other low settings (a bug IMO). So double check what you think you bought.



So there are a lot of variables. Best approach I found with suspect cheaters, is continue to play unless they become unmanageable in which case don't play with them. Don't ever accuse them of cheating, however I find it worth while to at least ask non-accusing questions to see if there is some explanation of what you are seeing.

Hope this helps.

(please forgive any spelling/grammar errors, it is a rush post.)

[Epoletov [SPR].]

Keep in mind that there are some very good players with 6th sense, so you could be up against one in which case consider it an honor and a lesson.

It is perfectly told !

It not a miracle, and a reality, multiplied by experience of many battles. :smoke:

[Vesku]

Lets say I suspect an opponent is cheating, the PBEM help says press
"1" anytime to evaluate the loads,Quits and Fails, but in my basic security game the data flashes by too quickly to read and when I press 1 the data does not appear, any suggestions? thanks Trident

Not sure but I think that you can't get this info in the download version in any but the first five slots. And as said before, these numbers can be really odd. I've seen numbers over 400 by turn 5 and those were for both players, I knew I hadn't done so many loads, only 399 by my count :)

[low_bidder]

I look for smoke puffs. AFAIK Smoke is part of the map, not a unit icon. So once the program puts down smoke it stays there unless the program removes it (wind or time, I think). So if an ATGM fires and leaves a smoke signature, reloading the turn doesn't remove the smoke signature. I used to use OP fire as an indicator, but I think the OP fire percentage was changed in version 4.0 Sometime during the 'majic AAA' period. Either that or I have been on a 3 years run of bad luck. Original OP fire required moral checks with modifiers for many different things. Regardless, a hidden unit with no suppression nearly always took the shot. Lately I have had hidden units with one or no suppression and high experience not take the shot.
And yes, sometimes it is pretty easy figuring out where your opponents units are hiding. The maps provide certain hexes with a 'natural' advantage. If your opponent isn't taking advantage of them, he is a rookie and there is no need to reload.
There are run-time debuggers that let you watch a running program from a window. Thousands of dollars. Anyone that buys one to cheat at SP should have spent the money on professional help.

Overall, I'm not sure reload actually helps. The fog of war level is so high in SP that reload to get different results isn't worth the time spent. You might get that unit rallied this load, but some other unit won't. You might make that shot and miss another. If you think things are so critical that one rally or one shot makes the difference then you are going to lose anyway. Might as well accept the inevitable gracefully.

[Imp]

The 1 key does nothing in basic security, in full security ignore loads saves might have done the turn in 2 parts the important bit is fails. Unless it crashes or something unusual happens like 2 games in one slot it normaly represents a reload. On the whole ignore it but if you suspect cheating press the 1 key & see what it says, lots of fails probably are.
Must be real exiting realoding & playing the same turn over till its right, a turn that starts with a lot of low probability hits hiting or never walking into an ambush are is indicators though the last only if his scouting is suspect good players watched it set up.

[Cross]

I've been playing this game for about 10 years, and I can honestly say that I don't think I've ever come across a cheat. That I am aware of. And if they have cheated, then they can't have been very good at it. :rolleyes:

Can anyone recall ever discovering a cheat in this game?
NB. If you do, do not name names.

I don't think this is the sort of game to attract cheats. As Imp pointed out, replaying turns to get a better a result has got to be frustrating. And for what? To feel better about yourself because you're higher on the ladder?

I do think it is important to immediately tell your opponent if you had a crash and needed to replay a turn. Which is rare with WinSP.

It can be frustrating losing. I've had losing opponents ask me pointed questions once or twice. Which I think they have a right to do. I just try and answer as clearly, accurately and respectfully as I can.

[Vesku]

It can be frustrating losing. I've had losing opponents ask me pointed questions once or twice. Which I think they have a right to do. I just try and answer as clearly, accurately and respectfully as I can.

There are several players here who are good enough to raise suspicions but after playing couple of battles you always notice that they keep that same high standard from turn to turn. All they do is always easily explained and very educational.