Extreme Assault Tactics - What Works Best?

[Troll]

But every ROLL is a LUCK ROLL, whether you have EA on or not, it is up to the game engine to make the final call, not the odds. As far as the bullet points go I am assuming the softening up means you have disrupted all of the units you want to over run, otherwise if you have one undisrupted unit in the over run hex, chances are you will not get the over run unless the strength points of the undisrupted unit are very low or you over run with something like the Axis Flame Thrower half track which has a assault factor of 16. But even with favorable odds, you may not get the OR because of the Luck Roll of the AI and whether you have EA on or not.

[Hawk Kriegsman]

But every ROLL is a LUCK ROLL, whether you have EA on or not, it is up to the game engine to make the final call, not the odds.

Not exactly. With EA there is a 10% (I believe) that an assault will fail no matter the odds, no matter how many SPs are attacking, etc. Sort of a heroic last stand if you will. Without EA it is a straight roll verses the odds.

As far as the bullet points go I am assuming the softening up means you have disrupted all of the units you want to over run,

Ideally yes that is softening up. More than getting a unit disrupted I want it to be forced to make additional morale checks which should lower its morale even more.

otherwise if you have one undisrupted unit in the over run hex, chances are you will not get the over run unless the strength points of the undisrupted unit are very low or you over run with something like the Axis Flame Thrower half track which has a assault factor of 16.

The number of undisrupted defending units is unimportant if a few factors are present. Defenders with low morale, low assault factor and low SP's will get overrun more often than not by strong assault units.

The 251/16 is not that good on assaults because it only has 2 SP. Give me a 6 SP engineer unit or SMG platoon instead.

But even with favorable odds, you may not get the OR because of the Luck Roll of the AI and whether you have EA on or not.

Not quite. The 10% assault fail is only in EA.

Thanx!

Hawk

[Crossroads]

There you go Mike all summed up (again) in 6 bullet points.

Thanks HK! :thumbs_up:

The piece of information where all units need not to be disrupted was especially a gem.

Took my own medicine, and reread the Assault_Explanation.doc at manuals folder again. It's all been gibberish, some of it still is... for me at least, that is!

Regarding disruptions, based on your comments this is now starting to make sense to me:

Essentially, when a hex full of units is attacked by an assaulting force, the game takes count of all the factors of the attacker vs all the factors in the defending stack. It also takes count of the number of counters (units) in the defending hex and evaluates them for various conditions like armor assaulting into an urban or open hex, fortifications, modifying terrain, etc. For our new processing I also had the software sum up the different morale values of the different units and derive an average based on the number of units in the defending stack. If any units in the stack are disrupted, their morale level is counted at a -3 of what is shown in the unit information box. This has the adverse effect of lowering the average morale of the stack and presents a realistic problem for the defender.

Apparently, there is a 15% chance of assault succeeding anyway (and a 10% of it failing anyway?). That is roughly one in seven charges that will succeed:

The odds based combat results table is the real gem in all of this for while it still makes it harder for assaults conducted at below 1:1 to succeed, it also allows the worst case attack a 15 percent chance of victory over the defender. This is also reflected at the top of the scale where the defender still has at least a 10% chance of defeating the attacker. And then no matter what happens, it is always possible that the defender might either fail or pass his morale check and completely negate the odds based die roll.

So what does this all mean to the guy playing the game? Simply this, nothing is as predictable as it was before. A player can plan his odds of success, and yet, no matter how well he plans, he may still lose. Or else he can try an enormous gamble that might otherwise be doomed to failure, and see it succeed.

And there's lots of more of this in the doc, I can not say I still would fully understand all what was being said there...

Regarding tactics: when in doubt, nuke'em until they glow? :kill:

It helps to keep the hex surrounded too, cutting off their line of supply.

On another note, what are the effects for cutting a unit off from supply, besides the ammo level? Does it effect the morale, for an example? Or some other factor besides ammo level or morale?

I tried to find more information from the manual, but no luck ???

[Otto von Blotto]

As others have said if you need to take the hex go heavy with multiple assaults with units that have high assault factors after softening up the hex.

One thing that's been missed by others, is tank overruns. armour assulting infantry in the open has much better chance of capuring it than before.

[Herr Straße Laufer]

But every ROLL is a LUCK ROLL, whether you have EA on or not, it is up to the game engine to make the final call, not the odds.

Actually, that is not the case. :chin:
You would need to understand the EA formula and how the rolls are done. As Hawk mentioned, even if you do everything right 10% of the time the final roll will go against the assaulter.
In practice I have found that I get 10%-ed more often then I would like.

Without EA if you do everything right, have all units disrupted, and have enough unused units to do the final overrun you will be successful. There is no ten percent that the game engine takes over. :smoke:

My biggest objection to EA is the 10%. And, it rarely seems that one out of ten assault fail based upon it. I see more like nine out of ten assaults fail because of it. :whis:



HSL

[Hawk Kriegsman]

One thing that's been missed by others, is tank overruns. armour assulting infantry in the open has much better chance of capuring it than before.

Not missed at all.

You actually have a worse chance with EA than before because of the 10% chance of an assault failing automatically no matter what. Without EA your chances of taking out infanty with armor was 99.5% now at the very best it is 90%.

Thanx!

Hawk

[Huib Versloot]

What works best?
-Hawks 6 points in his first post here.
-Only opt for assaulting a hex if you really have to and then prepare for it. Often action points are better spent otherwise.
-With EA on, (massive) assaulting is NOT the key to victory, with EA off it usually is.
-If you want to master EA, it is better not to play with EA off anymore. The tactics are fundamentally different. It can be hard to make the distinction when you play several games in a row with with different optional rules selected.

[Kool Kat]

-With EA on, (massive) assaulting is NOT the key to victory, with EA off it usually is.

Interesting comment. :chin:

So... effective EA tactics are to be VERY selective on assaults... utilize Hawk's 6 points... and employ more direct fire + bombardments against enemy units... correct?

[Jason Petho]

So... effective EA tactics are to be VERY selective on assaults... utilize Hawk's 6 points... and employ more direct fire + bombardments against enemy units... correct?

This pretty well sums it up, yes.

After you've surrounded and isolated the defending unit(s), and when you think you've caused enough morale checks on the defending unit to reduce the morale ... hit it with a couple more shots before assaulting.

In essence, Otto von Blotto was correct in saying that assaulting in the open (using tanks) is easier than other terrain as the tanks gain an assault bonus for assaulting in the open and the defenders do not gain the terrain modifier. Without EA, it doesn't matter if the disrupted infantry is in an open hex, forest or city, the assault result is the same.

Jason Petho

[Hawk Kriegsman]

This pretty well sums it up, yes.

I should point out to all that my six points are a direct result of Jason playing me and pounding these point home to me (he was polite about it though).

After you've surrounded and isolated the defending unit(s), and when you think you've caused enough morale checks on the defending unit to reduce the morale ... hit it with a couple more shots before assaulting.

Another lesson well taught to me by JP.

In essence, Otto von Blotto was correct in saying that assaulting in the open (using tanks) is easier than other terrain as the tanks gain an assault bonus for assaulting in the open and the defenders do not gain the terrain modifier.

So there is a bonus to the armor's assault factor when assaulting any unit in the open or just non-armored units? I also take it that this is not present without EA?

Without EA, it doesn't matter if the disrupted infantry is in an open hex, forest or city, the assault result is the same.

What has not been mentioned is that with EA armor's assault factor is actually halved in town, city, special building, suburb, village and I think rubble.

Thanx!

Hawk