"Gamey" tactics

[Rabbit]

Gerry brought up an interesting question about "gamey" tactics when he asked about vehicle protection, that I thought I might follow up on.

I have yet to encounter any PBEM players who would intentionally try to use "gamey" tactics for Squad Battles, nor I do remember ever seeing any chatter about it at this site, which makes me fully believe it isn't an issue at all. In large part, the game engine does a great job of preventing any "gamey" tactics. Really, I think the only concern is if people inadvertently were doing something they didn't realize might be considered gamey by someone else.

For instance, I myself had been wondering if anyone felt any of the following might be considered gamey:

1. Reassigning weapons between squads (e.g., a squad of eight taking over an MMG or a mortar from a squad of three men and giving them back AK47s to proactively avoid the risk of the heavy weapon becoming undercrewed, or reassigning a sniper rifle from a squad to their leader since the leader cannot get disrupted which would otherwise nullify the sniper bonus)
   
2. Using “Vehicle Only” fire against fortified positions to take advantage of the better penetration factor
   
3. Dropping radios, binoculars, nv googles, etc. to avoid being slowed down by them
   

[TheBigRedOne]

Gerry brought up an interesting question about "gamey" tactics when he asked about vehicle protection, that I thought I might follow up on.

I have yet to encounter any PBEM players who would intentionally try to use "gamey" tactics for Squad Battles, nor I do remember ever seeing any chatter about it at this site, which makes me fully believe it isn't an issue at all. In large part, the game engine does a great job of preventing any "gamey" tactics. Really, I think the only concern is if people inadvertently were doing something they didn't realize might be considered gamey by someone else.

For instance, I myself had been wondering if anyone felt any of the following might be considered gamey:

1. Reassigning weapons between squads (e.g., a squad of eight taking over an MMG or a mortar from a squad of three men and giving them back AK47s to proactively avoid the risk of the heavy weapon becoming undercrewed, or reassigning a sniper rifle from a squad to their leader since the leader cannot get disrupted which would otherwise nullify the sniper bonus)
   
2. Using “Vehicle Only” fire against fortified positions to take advantage of the better penetration factor
   
3. Dropping radios, binoculars, nv googles, etc. to avoid being slowed down by them
   

In general, there hasn't been a whole lot of issues that I've ever heard about with regards to bad behavior. A few conversations I've had with regular players have been around the issue of people scouting out scenarios before playing a PBEM. Not just peaking, either, actually keeping tabs on enemy locations prior to starting. If you're 'hidden' and taking fire, chances are someone's scouting the scenario.

I haven't experienced this myself, and we all have played scenarios that we may have played versus the AI in the past. I don't have that good of memory to remember troop locations and such, so it's usually not an issue. I prefer to play a scenario blind, but if my opponent has played it before, so be it. With the community as small as it is, most of us know each other well. If gaminess were an issue, it would be quickly conveyed to other players and the person doing it would run out of PBEM options pretty quickly.

As for the things you've mentioned, about the only thing that might be considered poor sportsmanship would be the sniper rifle thing, and even that I'm not going to make that big of an issue of.

The HE/AT round thing. Taken from the user's manual:

Vehicle Only – these loads only affect Vehicle targets and Infantry targets in Bunkers and Pillboxes. Also Infantry targets in Caves owned by the same side as the target are affected. These loads represent armor piercing loads that have no explosive ability of their own and thus have no effect against infantry targets in the open. This restriction includes the Ground Only restriction.
While you are allowed to fire against any target

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From Gerry's post in another thread

Thanks. Do you think it's gamey to unload units from the trucks and then drive the trucks to hexes that give cover to the infantry?

A disadvantage anyway is that trucks can be easily destroyed and thus cost victory points, right?

To answer this, which Mike did expertly, trucks and other thin-skinned vehicles aren't going to give enough protection to matter much, so I don't see folks using them as a bonus. Most MGs will smoke a truck in a turn or two. Not worth the energy.

There is one instance that I'd consider a gamey tactic that involves vehicles, and it's one that's been discussed in the past, but not quite in the same context as this question

I've read about where people would take trucks and drive them forward into the enemy lines to draw fire from infantry, basically giving away their positions. Most trucks are minor point losses, but the reconnaissance value of uncovering your opponent could be worth it. This would be a very gamey tactic, and one that I would not accept from someone I'm playing. I'd politely let them know it, and I'd probably consider not playing them again.

If your infantry is correctly 'holding fire' it's not as much of an issue, but certainly against the AI you could do this, or against a newer player who doesn't have the nuances of the game quite down yet.

[cazart!]

# Reassigning weapons between squads (e.g., a squad of eight taking over an MMG or a mortar from a squad of three men and giving them back AK47s to proactively avoid the risk of the heavy weapon becoming undercrewed, or reassigning a sniper rifle from a squad to their leader since the leader cannot get disrupted which would otherwise nullify the sniper bonus)
# Using “Vehicle Only” fire against fortified positions to take advantage of the better penetration factor
# Dropping radios, binoculars, nv googles, etc. to avoid being slowed down by them

I don't consider any of these gamey.

The first is a workaround for a limitation in the system - you can't combine crews to make sure that a support weapon is not undercrewed. As the system has matured, the scenario designers have taken to providing extra men to support weapons.

The second as Allen pointed out is how the system is designed.

The third is just good practice. If you don't think you'll need them no need on bringing them with you. Again a workaround for a limitation of the system.

[White Eagle]

I don't think that reassigning a weapon to a full squad is gamey if it's an infantry weapon or a weapon system the soldier is familar with.

For example I could see an NCO telling some members of his squad to man the MG and get on it fast, but the same NCO telling his soldiers to man the 88 is another story. I just ask myself is the soldier trained to use this weapon.

I routinely pick up dropped panzerfaust's in scenarios with tanks

[TheBigRedOne]

I routinely pick up dropped panzerfaust's in scenarios with tanks

As you rightly should!

[Mad_Dog]

I had never thought of reassigning the sniper rifle to a leader, that is a good one. ;) Although I always wonder why some sniper are leaders, and some aren't, I always figured it was a matter of skill and training as to whether they would diisrupt or not. A officer sniper is pretty powerful.

I've never had a problem with people using vehicles to scout. I don't often use trucks to do it, since that isn't really their historical use, but usually my scout cars end of in the middle of a line of fire and destroyed, just to scout stuff out. I figure that was their historical use, and if my units can't drive fast enough to dodge the bullets, then so be it. ;)

[Landser34]

I consider it gamey when somebody beats me in a game:kill:

[cazart!]

I had never thought of reassigning the sniper rifle to a leader, that is a good one. ;) Although I always wonder why some sniper are leaders, and some aren't,

Scenario design choice. An A+ level leader, with a sniper rifle in cover is going to be a tough nut to crack. Even more so if he has an extra rifle laying around, or has been able to prepare the position.....

[jomni]

It's a game so EVERYTHING is gamey!

[Laza]

I honestly wouldnt consider anything that to be gamey although like others I never thought of sniper rifle reassigned to a leader