The central position in attack: Gettysburg Day 1

[FM WarB]

Is the 32 bit update, independent of Matrix still available?

[Kingmaker]

HiHi

Try here.

http://home.hiwaay.net/~tiller/32bitupdates.htm

All the Best
Peter

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"If you are interested, what may get it going for you is making use of the 'Compatability' function in Vista, for any Game/program go to it's 'Properties', click on the 'Compatability' tab and set it to Win 98SE or XP and you should be in."

Thanks! That's good news. I'll give it a try! jonny ;)

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"However, they say the proof of the pudding is in the eating so do you want to give it a go? I'll play the bad guys and you can see if your thoughts pan out (I wouldn't hold you to your plan should it go pear shaped)."

In addition, I really wouldn't and couldn't play you having given you a detained and written plan of my attack, now could I? That's a tough proposition. jonny

HiHi

As I said Jonny (I wouldn’t hold you to your plan should it go pear shaped)."[/i] which frankly I think it would ... go Pear shaped that is

Your plan seems to me to be based on 'assumptions' of fed responses that in a game would not necessarily come about + in my opinion far too much emphasis on gaining the heights, it’s not “Gaining the Heights” that is the trick for the Rebs, it’s holding them! As I said before it’s a 3 day Battle :)

All the Best
Peter

[jonnymacbrown]

"Your plan seems to me to be based on 'assumptions' of fed responses that in a game would not necessarily come about + in my opinion"

Federal responses on Day 1 are very limited.

"far too much emphasis on gaining the heights, it’s not “Gaining the Heights” that is the trick for the Rebs, it’s holding them! As I said before it’s a 3 day Battle :)"

If you don't gain the hights, you can't hold 'em. And if you don't gain the heights at the beginning of Day 2 you ain't gonna' get 'em. jonny

[JasonC]

My comments on the proposed Confederate approach...

You are giving the Union too much time and a smart Union player can use that to hold pretty easily. Terrain isn't the key in any of it, the positioning of the forces is more important. If the Union stays too far forward under concentric assault that late in the first day, then your scheme might work, but there is no need for him to do so. If you are waiting clear until Anderson can arrive, then the Union can have brestworks all along Cemetary and its approaches (made by XI corps or even Robinson of I corps), perhaps even at intervening positions (Seminary, sunken road e.g.) on some parts of the front.

Then the Union just pulls out when your adequate forces finally arrive. You say so much the better because Seminary is harder to hold - but it isn't particularly weaker than McPherson's (which is too far forward anyway) as a reverse slope position, and nothing a few brestworks can't make a stronger line. All of the Union positions besides Cemetary should be treated as outpost lines anyway, and given up voluntarily as soon as the pressure on them gets hot. The Union shouldn't be sticking around to melee-brawl over anything, day 1.

Just fire and fall back, repeat as needed. The Rebels won't have any guns set up anywhere useful, that you can't just "skulk" away from within half an hour, making them move them again.

Ridges aren't cover by sitting on the crest line, but by sheltering the main body behind it. Sure have a few batteries and smaller regiments to skirmish at range, but the main body stays out of rifle fire until you want to accept combat. Then a short movement establishes LOS. That is basic reverse slope fighting principles in any era.

What I typically do instead as the confederates is just turn McPherson to the south with Pender. It is enough to lever the Union off the ridge, and if they don't go they will be "bagged" once Rhodes and Early show up as well. Instead of trying to smash the union center, I lap around it on both flanks. XI corps north of the town is too weak to hold off Rhodes and Early, and that position is bad anyway because retreat through the town is a mess. Much worse than Seminary. Meanwhile Pender marches or fights across McPherson to Seminary well south of the cavalry and 1st division of I corps. With marching doing as much of the "lifting" as possible.

The only part this has in common with your plan is that Heth skirmishes and sets up a grand battery instead of pushing hard, and I assume anyone who has played the rebels more than twice has figured that out. He fixes, but then you deploy and turn the Union left with Pender, then Rhodes and Early turn the Union right. No need for any frontal slogging match with I corps. The Union will pull out of the sack to avoid being trapped in it. When he goes back through the town you take what you can - cheaply - beyond it.

Then you need to assess whether to try to take the hill end of Cemetary or flank it, late day 1 or early day 2.

[Kingmaker]

HiHi

Well there you go then Jonny, you now have the bulk of my plan

"Thanks a million Jason!" :rolleyes:

Seriously though, pertinant points being You are giving the Union too much time & All of the Union positions besides Cemetary should be treated as outpost lines anyway

Jason, wanna have a crack? same premis, I wouldn't hold you to your plan etc.

All the Best
Peter

[jonnymacbrown]

"Seriously though, pertinant points being You are giving the Union too much time & All of the Union positions besides Cemetary should be treated as outpost lines anyway"

The situation is way more delicate for the Union that you fellows propose. Sure the various ridges are outposts, but if they are given up too soon, then the whole Union line collapses. If you fall back to Cemetery Ridge too soon, you will be overwhelmed. Seminary Ridge can't be held and there is nobody to build breastworks there anyway. To say that Seminary Ridge is the same as McPhereson's Ridge and that terrain doesn't matter is ridiculous. Fire and fall back sounds easy but if you give ground too soon and don't gauge the situation correctly you will be overwhelmed. Why do you think the Iron Brigade took so many casualties? If McPhereson's Ridge isn't held for quite some time, you can't hold the Cemetery either. jonny :soap:

[jonnymacbrown]

"Is the 32 bit update, independent of Matrix still available?"

Yes:
http://fly.hiwaay.net/~tiller/32bitupdates.htm

[-72-]

"Was wondering which title and scenario you were using Jonny?"

How can it be any different? jonny :conf:

Point taken - the HPS version though has more map, and it starts a little earlier than say the Talonsoft title, or Terrible Swift Sword (the boardgame) -so it is possible that some things that happen in one might not happen in others. I'm not making a judgment of what is better -but rather more like if I were to get talking about happened to me in an HPS version it may not translate entirely -even though I get where you are coming from with the entry times.

I guess what I'm getting at - is that I was playing as the Confederate player and had a Union opponent who defended about a ridge to the west of Herr Ridge and he seemed bent upon sacrificing his cavalry. Which, I should add that I was happy to cooperate with. 1 rgt or vidette vs a brigade generally works out in the brigade's favor- repeating carbines, not withstanding... which was what I was maneuvering for.

[JasonC]

"Fire and fall back sounds easy..." - and it is.

"If McPhereson's Ridge isn't held for quite some time, you can't hold the Cemetery either." - yet I have.

The rebels need to have the wind, not just the time. And whether they do depends far more on how intelligently the Union fights, to put hits on people, and far less on where they do so. Standing too far forward too rigidly against superior forces is exactly the way to fight unintelligently and let the rebels put the most hits on the Union forces for the licks they take themselves. Yes doing that right, instead, does mean pulling out of each position at the right time, not the wrong time. But then that is what they pay generals to figure out...

As an aside, I been playing versions of this game since... well as a wee lad I playtested TSS at an Origins convention before it was released - in the mid 1970s. I think I am tolerably familiar with the pacing of the battle.

[jonnymacbrown]

"I was playing as the Confederate player and had a Union opponent who defended about a ridge to the west of Herr Ridge and he seemed bent upon sacrificing his cavalry. Which, I should add that I was happy to cooperate with."

Your opponent has misread the situation. As we know there is no need to defend that far west. The situation is really delicate for the Union cavalry as you don't want to get the 1st Division chewed up but you can't allow the rebels to easily take McPhereson's ridge. "Fire & fall back" is very well for Herr's Ridge but at McPhereson's you need to make a stand. Jonny

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"Fire and fall back sounds easy..." - and it is.
"If McPhereson's Ridge isn't held for quite some time, you can't hold the Cemetery either." -
yet I have.

I'd say if you did; it's because the Rebel player did not remain concentrated on the Chambersburg Pike but made the usual mistake of migrating Northwards. If the Rebels concentrate in the center with Davis and Pettigrew they can't go wrong. If McPhereson's is given up too soon, and the Rebels occupy it with Davis and Pettigrew and guns, the Union player doesn't stand a chance

"Yes doing that right, instead, does mean pulling out of each position at the right time, not the wrong time. But then that is what they pay generals to figure out..."

Agreed.

"As an aside, I been playing versions of this game since... well as a wee lad I playtested TSS at an Origins convention before it was released - in the mid 1970s. I think I am tolerably familiar with the pacing of the battle."

I've also played many games of TSS, my favorite units being the Iron Brigade's famous Musketeers.