good doctrine for armored infantry?

[bwv]

play Russians most of the time, so never have to deal with infantry units that go "hard" in travel mode. Do you still not want to end your turn with these in T-mode, or does the hard protection offer value under some circumstances? Any thoughts on a simple doctrine for armored infantry would be appreciated.

[Ricky B]

It depends on the enemy weapons that they are faced with. If there are enemy tanks with even just a decent HA that can strike them - arty with a high HA, AT guns, or tanks, for example, then it can be a bad idea to stay in travel mode. But in many cases, the enemy infantry will have only minimal ability to hurt them in T mode and so it can be safe to leave them - or worthwhile for other reasons too.

Of course, I will use and leave regular truck mounted infantry in T mode at times, but it is the rare situation where I find that worthwile - Bulge is an excellent example for the Germans where it is necessary in the early situation to be able to push down narrow forest paths, using tanks and infantry in T mode to assault disrupted Americans out of the way.

Rick

[Volcano Man]

Yes, to add to what Rick said:

IMO, usually I wouldn't stay in travel mode unless you are on the move (in an exploit) and have no threat of enemy nearby. The trouble is, you never really know exactly what the enemy has at his disposal, and if he has the right tools available, he can exact a heavy toll on your T mode hard halftrack unit (with either airstrikes, heavy artillery, or a tank unit or two).

On the other hand, if you have a good grasp of the situation from thorough recon and you know there isn't anything in the area but rifle infantry, then sure, stay in your half tracks, but the airstrikes are still a threat.

[Mr Grumpy]

Another use is as a rearguard when your opponent is advancing with units with no or low HA values as when you change into T mode you will receive little or no fire as you move away, i had this done to me in a Sicily game when i didn't get my Sherman's to the front when advancing up a narrow road, as my infantry had a 0 HA value my opponent could go into T mode and move to another blocking position with no danger of any losses! :hissy:

[raizer]

in kharkov 43 with the terrible snow..german armored inf. should roll about in T mode-as long as there are no sthurmvicks around. Stay t, shoot, move a hex away. The russians infantry moves up with no hard attack value and cant assault cant shoot. The arty is Hard attack 3-big deal. I dont know why all my opponents dont keep their arm. german infantry in T mode during all night and dusk turns-move and shoot with impunity-no air attacks to worry about. (unless you consider soviet U2s with their awesome armored night attack of 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!! a threat-those sewing machines were not known for anti armor capabilities lol) Now if you find yourself next to a russian infantry who can assault you, and you in T mode, you are in big trouble, because you will lose 30 guys in one pop.

[Volcano Man]

Right, medium and light artillery have a hard attack 3, but heavy artillery (150mm and above) is hard attack 5 - and yes, the latter can be a big deal against T mode armored infantry. Of course it is a matter of having them in the right place though.

But what is a "big deal" is relative of course. Even medium artillery with a hard attack of 3 can deal upwards to 9 kills (as long as the spotting infantry are not detached) with each shot on T mode armored infantry, which is about the same punishment that the T mode armored infantry administers on the lower valued rifle battalion with each shot, so I am not convinced that it is a good trade myself (at least keeping them in T mode in contact I mean). If the guns are concentrated and everything is in command then they can exact a heavy toll. I also worry (perhaps too much so) about an unknown tank battalion just behind the front line, or an airstrike or two -- things that are out of your control when the enemy is playing their turn. But, as with everything, it all depends on the situation.

I guess it is no different than tanks doing the same tactic, with the exception that you might be able to catch a T mode armored infantry unit and make them pay if you have the right tools available at the right time and place.

edited:clarification

[larsonney]

Speaking as a German playing Kharkov '43...I live under the old saying that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...

The unknown factor of the Russian positions...especially the tanks...creates an opportunity for disaster. The Germans don't have a lot of troops, and having the cream of the crop get beat up or...gasp...eliminated by getting caught in transport mode is unforgivable, IMHO.

I realize that happening might not be likely, but the risk is not worth the reward...

[Ricky B]

I think you have to decide what is best based on the current situation you are faced with and the chances of trouble - it would take a huge risk to actually lose a unit, I think, but losses could be painful in some situations.

Re VM's comment on losses while in T mode for the arm inf, the losses would probably be in a similar vein if deployed. So I think the key risks are Sturmos and tanks, with a lesser risk of heavy artillery striking.

So weigh the risks, the reward may be worth it (to some of us), even if you do take one or two blows, they might still be worthwhile.

Rick

[Mr Grumpy]

To add to the risk comments, you need to add into the equation the skill of your opponent as well. ;)

Im my example it was my mistake not to push my HA units to the fore that allowed my opponent to use the T mode tactic with impunity as i had outranged my arty and had very few air missions. :hissy: