What about Antwerpen in F 14?

[jonnymacbrown]

Immediate assault into the place with the III & IV Hun Reserve Armee Korps in place? Those are good troops and the Garrison is knackered. Looks like you can bust right in over those Engineer units in redoubts thus avoiding the forts. :conf:

[FM WarB]

Where, then would the Belgians who teleport out of Namur go?

[jonnymacbrown]

"Where, then would the Belgians who teleport out of Namur go?"

There is enough to do in this game without worrying about the Belgian 4th Division.

[Volcano Man]

Sure, give it a go, but I think you would need more than those two corps because the Belgians can be quite resilient, exhausted or not. I believe the Germans would need to divert siege guns to Antwerp to do anything meaningful though; you can squeeze through in some places but the siege guns will be needed to eliminated the fortress thorns that you bypass. Those siege guns are needed to reduce Maubeuge so, well, it is a tough decision either way as you will have to give up something I think.

Try out the Antwerp scenarios if you haven't yet, they are good tough fights for both sides.

[Mr Grumpy]

Ed and myself played through the 73 turn 1914_1001_01s: Never Give Up! Antwerp scenario and as the CP player i achieved a draw with three turns to go!

So i can vouch that if your opponent is skilled in defence that Antwerp is anything but a walkover. ;)

[FM WarB]

It seems to me that the German goal is the defeat of the french army, not the Belgian army. If Antwerp is merely masked, how far would a Belgian sortie have to go to do any real damage? How much would be on the tip of the Belgian spear, and how much would have to remain in Antwerp and on the LOC.?

Arriving German reinforcements and activating reserve forces are plenty to deal with a Belgian sortie. Joffre would be chortling if two full German Corps (+) were removed from the attack on his left flank.

[Frode Larsen]

"Where, then would the Belgians who teleport out of Namur go?"

There is enough to do in this game without worrying about the Belgian 4th Division.

Why is the Belgian 4th Division withdrawn in the campaign game? Reading Holger Herwig's The Marne, 1914 (p 128-131) I was under the impression that the majority of the division was destroyed when the Germans stormed Namur and intercepted the retreating Belgians.

France 1914 is great, by the way. Quite possibly the best of the Tiller games.[/quote]

[jonnymacbrown]

"Joffre would be chortling if two full German Corps (+) were removed from the attack on his left flank."

I can see it now: Papa Joffre' supporting his big pot belly with both hands and chuckling away, ho, ho, ho. jonny

[Volcano Man]

Right, portions of the Belgian 4th Division were destroyed at Namur, but NO it was not totally destroyed and it was indeed withdrawn and then sent by ship to Antwerp. If your book doesn't go into detail on this then look for another book on the topic. I believe Tyng's book covers this _The Campaign of the Marne_, and the British Official Military History of the War series definitely does (France and Belgian 1914, vol. 1, p.37, middle page).

BTW, the large portion of it that is destroyed is represent in game by it arriving at Antwerp with reduced strength, as there is no way of knowing (AFAICT) if/which, if any, battalions were completely wiped out and which were relatively unscathed. The reduced strength and accumulated fatigue is sufficient.

Thanks for the compliment too. :)

[Mr Grumpy]

It seems to me that the German goal is the defeat of the french army, not the Belgian army. If Antwerp is merely masked, how far would a Belgian sortie have to go to do any real damage? How much would be on the tip of the Belgian spear, and how much would have to remain in Antwerp and on the LOC.?

Arriving German reinforcements and activating reserve forces are plenty to deal with a Belgian sortie. Joffre would be chortling if two full German Corps (+) were removed from the attack on his left flank.

In the hands of a experienced player the Belgium forces can be quite effective against second line CP units, however with most of their units D quality and lacking mobile howitzers there are limitations to how much damage they can do. ;)