Quality Fatigue Modifier

[Marquo]

What is the consensus on using the Fatigue Quality Modifier? It seems like it gives the Axis an overwhelming advantage in most scenarios where it has A/B troops and the Soviets have C/D troops. "A" troops have fatigue decelerated by 50% and "D" troops accelerate fatigue by 25%. This may be okay in a campaign like Minsk which is already a cakewalk for the Soviets. Recently I declined to accept this rule from a potential Axis opponent in the Kursk Campaign - it would have made an already difficult campaign almost impossible for the Soviet, especially since there is only one night turn per 24 hours in that campaign. This means that the Axis player could move every turn and accumulate very little fatigue at all.

How do you use this rule?

Thanks,

Marquo :)

[Mr Grumpy]

I have not used this rule enough to give you a definative answer, but my gut tells me it would work better with the Germans on the defensive but still with good quality troops, the S43 CG would be a good example. ;)

[Ricky B]

And it was specifically added for Minsk, Marquo, so it should be a a good fit. As Foul said, it would be good to use where the Germans are having a tough time handling the battle - but anything prior to Minsk is not a good choice except maybe Stalingrad and maybe a few specific scenarios - anything much older would be skewed way too far, in general, such as Kursk, Smolensk, etc.

Rick

[raizer]

this rule has to be used sparingly...minsk for sure. Or when one player is exceedingly more experienced than the other and the inexperienced player takes the germans. And of course this optional rule has more of an effect the longer the game goes. The 4th panzer army is tough enough-it doesnt need the quality fatigue modifier ;-)

[Marquo]

this rule has to be used sparingly...minsk for sure. Or when one player is exceedingly more experienced than the other and the inexperienced player takes the germans. And of course this optional rule has more of an effect the longer the game goes. The 4th panzer army is tough enough-it doesnt need the quality fatigue modifier ;-)

Thanks, guys. I am glad that I declined to play Kursk as the Soviet against an Axis opponent who wanted to use this rule for his elite troops. Talk about a sucker punch. :eek1: At first I thought I was being a wimp, but the more I thought about it, the colder my feet got.

Thanks again.

Marquo

[Mr Grumpy]

For everyone reading this thread i will state again that the Opt rules that a title was designed around can be set by the "default" button in the Opt rules dialogue box and if you are unsure in anyway how additional Opt rules (on top of the default ones) will effect a scenario then DON'T USE THEM! :soap:

Since i have been using the forums here the Opt rules have produced more debate than anything else apart from AT guns, i had put forward a suggestion that the list of Opt rules should be reduced by incorporating the rules that have minimal effect (i.e. Night fatigue, Recon Spotting etc..) into the main rules as i believe just adding to the Opt list makes a difficult situation worse, but i was unsuccessful in that.

Every time we see players post "shall i select all the Opt rules for a more historical game" makes me realise just how misunderstood the whole Opt rule subject can be. :rolleyes:

[JDR Dragoon]

This Optional Rule might also be used in most of the MC series, where NATO has more B quality units, but doesn´t receive any overseas reinforcements and are thus vulnerable to common attrition. This goes especially for the longer scenarios. Explicit Supply is another pro-NATO balancing measure that might be used.

[Volcano Man]

If, however, you are playing an "Alt" scenario then it requires this rule. Generally speaking they are tailored to use that scenario with the Germans usually being a lower quality than they once were (some B quality as opposed to all A quality). But really, it depends on the *quantity* of units in relation to each other. And the Kursk_Alt scenario, not that this is what you are playing, is by no mean easy for the Germans (they need the rule to be able to maintain momentum).

In a campaign where there is a higher quality side that is greatly out numbered, then that side should have the QFM rule activated, otherwise there is very little way to represent this qualitative advantage. This is especially true when that particular side is forced to break down into companies to cover frontage where those companies will be put in a situation to fight against battalions. So, the rule itself is not a "sucker punch", it just depends on what scenario you are playing. If you are playing the stock scenarios then I would ALWAYS play with the default optional rules just to be safe - if there is any concern.

[Bushido]

Thanks Ed! And Yes I do prefer to play the Alt_campaigns. I find them much better than stock.

[Marquo]

If, however, you are playing an "Alt" scenario then it requires this rule. Generally speaking they are tailored to use that scenario with the Germans usually being a lower quality than they once were (some B quality as opposed to all A quality). But really, it depends on the *quantity* of units in relation to each other. And the Kursk_Alt scenario, not that this is what you are playing, is by no mean easy for the Germans (they need the rule to be able to maintain momentum).

In a campaign where there is a higher quality side that is greatly out numbered, then that side should have the QFM rule activated, otherwise there is very little way to represent this qualitative advantage. This is especially true when that particular side is forced to break down into companies to cover frontage where those companies will be put in a situation to fight against battalions. So, the rule itself is not a "sucker punch", it just depends on what scenario you are playing. If you are playing the stock scenarios then I would ALWAYS play with the default optional rules just to be safe - if there is any concern.

Ed,

Actually I was going to play the stock K'43 Kursk where I do beleive that th FQM is a sucker punch; the overall stats show that the Axis does not need extra help - and in that CG there in only one night turn, and the Axis is overloaded with A units.

Now I am going to play with your alt rules instead where it makes more sense. Also, I remember working on the alt CG with you, and you made many changes which make it much more playable and competative. :)

Marquo