kh 43 clearing rubble for 20+ turns?

[Glenn Saunders]

Well guys - the fact is there is only RUBBLE in now Cleared hexes and "Rubble" which represents a hex that has had the road cleared. During the design, it was decided that making this more complexed and having different types of rubble for varying severity for different terrain added complexity which added nothing to the game experience.

Originally there was no rubble clearing at all, but people felt this was unreasonable so John came up with an equaly simply equation where ANY Engineer - even one that just dropped from an aircraft - could clear the rubble, regardless of the size of the eng unit in terms of # of men.

It is a pretty simplistic model when you think about it. But it works.

However it sets up a situation where when you begin to analysis it in terms or real life examples, the module appears flawed.

Just consider real life in NOT turn based where one side moves and the other side watches - then the sides switch. If you can get over that abstraction, the various gray areas involved in rubble, and rubble clearing as a fixed die roll (low change of occuring - The probability that the rubble will be cleared in the hex is half the Digging-In Parameter Data value per turn.) one per Eng regardless of how long it has been trying, makes a little more sense.

Just keep in mind - the game treats many real life situations as "BLACK OR WHITE" when life is really made up of many shades of grey. There are a lot more examples of this that Rubble and Rubble clearing - that is for sure.

[raizer]

well Glenn, the black or white issues are what keeps me playing and Im sure what keeps others playing. If there is too much under the hood to manage the game losses its appeal-there is another big ww2 game out there that has a ton under its hood and I just wiped it from my HD-course the one benefit from buying that game, was buying another laptop to run it and now I run all the hps games on it.

[Liquid_Sky]

I did a test a while back and it seemed to me that there is only one check per hex for having engineers, not one check per engineer in the hex.

I find the best solution to the RUBBLE problem is to not make it in the first place. Try to avoid using artillery on buildings, instead use it on the guys supporting the town.

Edit: I should clarify, a hex with 5 engineer battalions is not 5 times more likely to clear rubble, then a hex with only one engineer.

[Glenn Saunders]

I did a test a while back and it seemed to me that there is only one check per hex for having engineers, not one check per engineer in the hex.

Thanks for clarifying that point - I couldn't recall if it was one per hex or Eng frankly

I find the best solution to the RUBBLE problem is to not make it in the first place. Try to avoid using artillery on buildings, instead use it on the guys supporting the town.

Good point!

Edit: I should clarify, a hex with 5 engineer battalions is not 5 times more likely to clear rubble, then a hex with only one engineer.

right - the whole idea is to give some way to allow for the rubble to be removed without turning the game into an engineering task, with different abilities for different engineers (as would be the case in real life), for different sized units ect.

Glenn

[Marquo]

Observations from an Olde Warhorse:

1. As the attacker, you must turn on the names function from time to time to see the small villages or you will rubble them without even knowing it.
2. As the defender, place units in "rubblable" hexes.
3. It is too bad one can't intentionally shell and rubble hexes without enemy units in the same manner as one can destroy a bridge.

Marquo

[Nitram Draw]

Observations from an Olde Warhorse:

1. As the attacker, you must turn on the names function from time to time to see the small villages or you will rubble them without even knowing it.
2. As the defender, place units in "rubblable" hexes.
3. It is too bad one can't intentionally shell and rubble hexes without enemy units in the same manner as one can destroy a bridge.

Marquo

You can fire on empty hexes.

[Marquo]

Observations from an Olde Warhorse:

1. As the attacker, you must turn on the names function from time to time to see the small villages or you will rubble them without even knowing it.
2. As the defender, place units in "rubblable" hexes.
3. It is too bad one can't intentionally shell and rubble hexes without enemy units in the same manner as one can destroy a bridge.

Marquo

You can fire on empty hexes.

Do they rubble?

[Ricky B]

They can, but it takes more firepower - I believe the fire in this situation is quartered, although that is without reviewing the manual for penalties on unobserved fire, but it seems about right.

[Nitram Draw]

Observations from an Olde Warhorse:

1. As the attacker, you must turn on the names function from time to time to see the small villages or you will rubble them without even knowing it.
2. As the defender, place units in "rubblable" hexes.
3. It is too bad one can't intentionally shell and rubble hexes without enemy units in the same manner as one can destroy a bridge.

Marquo

You can fire on empty hexes.

Do they rubble?

Yes. You can also do an air strike on any hex and try to rubble it.

[Lien Leposh]

Observations from an Olde Warhorse:

1. As the attacker, you must turn on the names function from time to time to see the small villages or you will rubble them without even knowing it.
2. As the defender, place units in "rubblable" hexes.
3. It is too bad one can't intentionally shell and rubble hexes without enemy units in the same manner as one can destroy a bridge.

Marquo

You can fire on empty hexes.

Do they rubble?

Yes. You can also do an air strike on any hex and try to rubble it.

Well I for one am glad its taking time to clear hexes. I am currently retreating west in front of Moscow, and the longer the RUBBLE stays on the primary routes the harder it is for the Red hordes to advance quickly. I have had to clear a fair few villages myself to aid reinforecment of critical areas.
I know it takes a while so I just plonk the Engineers down , set them to work and forget about them. I have about 4-5 clearing rear areas at the moment and the rate of clearing seems reasonable to me. The annoying bit will be having to RE RUBBLE them when Ivan reaches them!