CS Aviation Aspects

K K Rossokolski · 07-13-2011, 03:53 PM,

Can anyone tell me what are the parameters used to decide the Attack values for aircraft?

Big Dawg · 07-15-2011, 09:53 AM,

(07-13-2011, 03:53 PM)K K Rossokolski Wrote: Can anyone tell me what are the parameters used to decide the Attack values for aircraft?

I often conduct a human sacrifice. I find that the aircraft will attack empty trucks if not.

(Hope you are well, buddy!)

K K Rossokolski · 07-15-2011, 02:44 PM,

It's a good simulation, Jack. A deserted camp site was another favourite, I recall.
Getting by, my friend...your good self and family are well I trust.

Herr Straße Laufer · 07-15-2011, 07:26 PM,

Rod,

I believe the air was adequately researched by the original Talonsoft crew.

The manual says: Each Air Attack has been individually modeled with unique “hard” and “soft” Attack Values, as well as an individual Defense Value. The number of Strength Points that a given Air Attack represents varies depending upon the plane type.

TalonSoft's East Front Aircraft List

The first number is strength points, followed by hard attack, soft attack, defensive value, victory points, start date, and end date.

FINLAND
Gloster Gladiator Mk I Fighter 3 6 8 3 4 11/39 5/40
Fiat G-50 Fighter 2 6 8 3 3 11/39 3/40
Bf 109G-6/R4 Ground Attack 2 34 48 8 8 11/39 9/44
Brewster 239 Fighter 2 6 9 3 4 3/40 9/44

GERMANY
Bf 109 Fighter 2 8 12 7 5 9/39 5/45
Hs 123A Ground Attack 2 8 18 5 6 9/39 7/43
Ju 87B Dive Bomber 2 20 24 6 7 9/39 12/42
Ju 87D Dive Bomber 2 40 60 6 9 1/42 9/43
Bf 109G-6/R4 Ground Attack 2 34 48 8 8 5/42 5/45
Ju 87G Anti-Tank 2 60 8 7 8 7/43 5/45
Hs 129B Anti-Tank 2 50 16 6 8 7/43 5/45
FW 190F-3/R3 Ground Attack 2 16 20 7 6 1/44 5/45

HUNGARY
Bf 109 Fighter 2 8 12 7 5 7/41 5/45
Ju 87B Dive Bomber 2 20 24 6 7 7/41 5/45
Me 110G Ground Attack 2 20 24 7 8 5/42 5/45
Ju 87D Dive Bomber 2 40 60 6 9 7/42 5/45

ITALY (AXIS)
Fiat C.R. 42 Fighter 3 4 8 3 4 8/41 3/43
Fiat C.R. 42 AS Ground Attack 3 8 10 3 4 8/41 3/43
Ju 87B Dive Bombers 2 20 24 6 7 8/41 12/42
Bf 109G-6/R4 Ground Attack 2 34 48 8 8 5/42 3/43

POLAND
P. 23B Ground Attack 3 4 5 6 7 9/39 9/39
P. 37B Ground Attack 3 5 17 6 8 9/39 9/39

ROMANIA (AXIS)
Bf 109 Fighter 2 8 12 7 5 7/41 8/44
Bloch MB-152 Fighter 5 8 12 4 5 7/41 8/44
Ju 87B Dive Bomber 2 20 24 6 7 7/41 8/44
Me 110G Ground Attack 2 10 16 7 8 7/41 8/44
Bf 109G-6/R4 Ground Attack 2 34 48 8 8 11/42 8/44

ROMANIA (ALLIED)
Bf 109 Fighter 2 8 12 7 5 8/44 5/45
Me 110G Ground Attack 2 10 16 7 8 8/44 5/45
Ju 87B Dive Bomber 2 20 24 6 7 8/44 5/45
Bf 109G-6/R4 Ground Attack 2 34 48 8 8 8/44 5/45

RUSSIA
I-16 Fighter 3 8 12 4 4 1/39 3/43
Yak Fighter 3 10 14 5 4 1/41 5/45
Il-2 Ground Attack 3 20 30 7 6 6/41 12/43
LaGG-3 Fighter 3 6 8 5 4 12/41 12/42
Il-2m3 Ground Attack 3 24 32 9 6 9/42 5/45
La-5 Fighter 3 10 8 6 4 10/2 5/45

SLOVAKIA
Avia B.534 Fighter 2 3 4 3 4 8/41 2/43
Bf 109E Fighter 2 8 12 7 5 3/42 6/44
Bf 109G-6/R4 Ground Attack 2 34 48 8 8 2/43 6/44

TalonSoft's West Front Aircraft List

BELGIUM
Gloster Gladiator Mk I Fighter 3 6 8 3 4 5/40 5/40

BRAZIL
P-47D Ground Attack 2 36 52 7 8 9/44 5/45

BULGARIA(AXIS)
Avia B.534.IV Fighter Aircraft 2 6 8 3 4 3/41 9/44
PZL. P43 Czajka Ground Attack 2 20 24 6 7 4/41 9/44
Ju 87R-2/R-4 Dive Bombers 2 40 60 6 7 7/41 8/44
Bf 109G-6/G-10 Ground Attack 2 34 48 8 8 7/41 9/44
Ju 87D Dive Bombers 2 40 60 6 9 1/42 9/44
Bf 109G-2 Fighter 2 8 12 7 5 5/43 9/44
Bf 109E-4 Fighter 2 8 12 7 5 7/43 9/44

CROATIA (AXIS)
Potez 25 Aircraft Light Bomber 3 6 8 3 4 4/41 5/45
Bruget Br. XIX A2 Light Bomber 3 6 8 3 4 4/41 5/45
Bf 109E-2 Fighter 2 8 12 7 5 3/42 11/42
Bf 109G-6/G-10 Ground Attack 2 34 48 8 8 8/42 1/44
Macchi C.202 Fighter, Folgore 3 10 14 7 5 9/43 12/44
Ju 87D Dive Bombers 2 40 60 6 9 1/44 5/45

ETHIOPIA
Potez 25 Aircraft Light Bomber 3 6 8 3 4 10/35 5/36

FRANCE
Dewoitine D.520 Fighter 5 12 18 3 5 9/39 6/40
Bloch MB-152 Fighter 5 8 12 4 5 9/39 6/40
Caudron-Renault Cr-714 Fighter Aircraft 5 8 12 3 5 9/39 6/40
Curtiss Hawk 75 Aircraft 5 18 20 6 6 9/39 6/40
Morane MS.406 Fighter Aircraft 5 8 12 3 5 9/39 6/40
MB 174 Ground Attack 5 16 24 8 5 3/40 6/40
Bre 693 Ground Attack 5 18 28 4 6 5/40 6/40

FREE FRANCE
Dewoitine D.520 Fighter 5 12 18 3 5 8/40 5/43
Spitfire Mk VB Fighter 2 14 18 6 5 8/40 5/45
Typhoon Ground Attack 2 36 48 5 7 8/42 5/45
P-40E Ground Attack 2 20 26 6 6 11/42 5/45

GERMANY
Ju 87B Dive Bombers 2 20 24 6 7 9/39 12/42
Hs 123A Ground Attack 2 8 18 5 6 9/39 7/43
BV 141B Recce Aircraft 2 4 6 3 4 9/39 7/43
Bf 109 Fighter 2 8 12 7 5 9/39 5/45
Bf 110 Ground Attack Aircraft 2 20 24 7 8 9/39 5/45
Ju 88 Bomber 2 24 102 4 8 9/39 5/45
He 111 Bomber 2 16 68 3 8 9/39 5/45
Fw 189 Recce Aircraft 2 8 12 6 4 9/40 5/45
Me 410 Ground Attack Aircraft 2 40 48 9 8 10/41 5/45
Ju 87D Dive Bombers 2 40 60 6 9 1/42 9/43
Bf 109G-6/R4 Ground Attack 2 34 48 8 8 5/42 5/45
He 177A-1 Bomber 2 32 136 3 9 7/42 5/45
Ju 188 Bomber 2 24 102 6 8 2/43 5/45
Ju 87G Anti-Tank 2 60 8 7 8 7/43 5/45
Hs 129B Anti-Tank 2 50 16 6 8 7/43 5/45
Fw 190F-3/R3 Ground Attack 2 16 20 7 6 1/44 5/45
Me 262 Ground Attack Aircraft 2 40 48 9 9 6/44 5/45
Ar 234 Bomber 2 38 50 9 9 9/44 5/ 45
Do 335 Fighter Aircraft 2 8 12 8 6 11/44 5/45
Ta 183 Fighter Aircraft 2 18 24 9 6 4/45 5/45
Ho 229 Fighter Aircraft 2 58 76 10 9 4/45 5/45

GREECE
PZL P.24 Ground Attack 3 10 16 3 5 10/40 5/41

IRAN (AXIS)
Hawker Nasir Light Bomber 3 8 10 3 6 8/41 8/41
Hawker Fury Fighter 3 6 8 3 4 8/41 8/41
Hawker Hind Fighter 3 6 8 3 4 8/41 8/41

IRAQ (AXIS)
Hawker Nasir Light Bomber 3 8 10 3 4 4/41 5/41
Douglas A8-4 Light Bomber 2 12 18 5 6 4/41 5/41
Gloster Gladiator Mk I Fighter 3 6 8 3 4 4/41 5/41
Breda Ba 65 Ground Attack 2 12 18 5 6 4/41 5/41
Savoia Marchetti S.M. 79 Bomber 3 10 34 3 8 4/41 5/41

ITALY (ALLIED)
Fiat C.R. 42 Fighter 3 6 8 3 4 9/43 12/43
Fiat C.R. 42 AS Ground Attack 3 8 10 3 4 9/43 12/43
P-40E Ground Attack 2 20 26 6 6 10/43 5/45
P-38F Fighter 2 26 34 7 7 10/43 5/45
Typhoon Ground Attack 2 36 48 5 7 12/44 5/45

ITALY (AXIS)
Fiat C.R. 32 Fighter 3 4 8 3 4 7/36 4/39
Meridonali Ro. 37bis Ground Attack 3 8 10 3 4 7/36 4/39
Savoia Marchetti S.M. 79 Bomber 3 10 34 3 8 8/36 9/43
Savoia Marchetti S.M. 81 Bomber 3 10 34 2 8 8/36 9/43
Fiat B.R. 20 Bomber 3 14 54 3 8 11/37 9/43
Breda Ba 65 Ground Attack 2 12 18 5 6 2/38 9/43
Fiat G50 Fighter 3 6 8 3 5 1/39 9/43
Reggiane RE 2000 Fighter, Falco 3 8 12 4 5 9/39 5/45
Breda Ba.88 Ground Attack, Lince 3 18 24 3 5 9/39 5/45
Caproni Ca 313, Bomber 3 14 18 5 5 9/39 5/45
Macchi C.200 Fighter, Saetta 3 6 8 3 5 10/39 5/45
Cant Z.1007 Bomber, Alcione 3 20 68 3 8 12/39 5/45
Fiat C.R. 42 Fighter 3 4 8 3 4 6/40 9/43
Fiat C.R. 42 AS Ground Attack 3 8 10 3 4 5/41 5/45
Ju 87B Dive Bombers 2 20 24 6 7 6/41 12/42
Macchi C.202 Fighter, Folgore 3 10 14 7 5 7/41 5/45
Meridonali Ro.57, Ground Attack 3 14 20 5 5 1/42 5/45
Bf 109G-6/R4 Ground Attack 2 34 48 8 8 5/42 5/45
Fiat G.55 Fighter, Centauro 3 10 14 7 5 8/43 5/ 45
Bf 109 Fighter 2 8 12 7 5 9/43 5/45

NETHERLANDS
Fokker D.XXI Fighter 3 8 10 4 4 5/40 5/40

NORWAY
Fokker D.XXI Fighter 3 8 10 4 4 4/40 6/40
Gloster Gladiator Mk I Fighter 3 6 8 3 4 4/40 6/40

NAT'L. SPAIN (AXIS)
Nieuport-Delage NiD 53 Fighter 3 3 4 3 4 7/36 4/39
Bruget Br. XIX A2 Light Bomber 3 6 8 3 4 7/36 4/39
Fiat C.R. 32 Fighter 3 4 8 3 4 7/36 5/45
Junkers Ju52 Bomber 2 12 52 2 8 7/36 5/45
Meridonali Ro. 37bis Ground Attack 3 8 10 3 4 8/36 4/39
Heinkel He 51C Ground Attack 2 8 18 5 6 8/36 5/45
Heinkel He 70 Bomber 2 12 18 3 5 10/36 5/45
Heinkel He111 Bomber 2 16 68 3 8 1/37 5/45
Bf 109 Fighter 2 8 12 7 5 1/37 5/45
Dornier Do17 Bomber 2 8 34 3 7 1/37 5/45
Henschel Hs 123A Ground Attack 2 8 18 5 6 4/37 5/45
Heinkel He 112 Fighter 2 8 12 6 5 5/37 5/45
Ju 87B Dive Bomber 2 20 24 6 7 10/37 4/39
I-15 Fighter 3 7 11 4 4 4/39 5/45
Savoia Marchetti S.M. 79 Bomber 3 10 34 3 8 4/39 5/45
Savoia Marchetti S.M. 81 Bomber 3 10 34 2 8 4/39 5/45

REP. SPAIN (ALLIED)
Bruget Br. XIX A2 Light Bomber 3 6 8 3 4 7/36 4/39
Nieuport-Delage NiD 53 Fighter 3 3 4 3 4 7/36 4/39
Potez 25 Aircraft Light Bomber 3 6 8 3 4 7/36 4/39
Potex 54 Bomber 3 8 24 2 7 7/36 4/39
Bloch MB210 Bomber 3 18 68 2 4 7/36 4/39
Polikarpov I-15 Fighter 3 7 11 4 4 10/36 4/39
Tupolev SB2 Bomber 3 12 16 2 5 10/36 4/39
Polikarpov R-Z Ground Attack 3 12 16 3 4 1/37 4/39
Polikarpov I-152 Fighter 3 8 12 4 4 6/37 4/39
Polikarpov I-16 Fighter 3 8 12 4 4 6/37 4/39

U.K. AND COMMONWEALTH
Battle Bomber 2 14 18 4 5 9/39 11/40
Skua Dive Bomber 2 10 12 4 5 9/39 8/41
Gloster Gladiator Mk I Fighter Aircraft 3 6 8 3 4 9/39 12/42
Blenheim Bomber 2 14 18 5 6 9/39 5/45
Hurricane Mk I Fighter 2 12 16 5 5 9/39 5/45
Spitfire Mk VB Fighter 2 14 18 6 5 9/39 5/45
Fulmar Fighter Aircraft 2 10 12 5 5 8/40 12/42
Hurricane Mk IIA Fighter Aircraft 2 12 16 5 5 10/40 5/45
Hurricane Mk IIB Fighter Aircraft 2 10 12 5 5 2/41 5/45
Hurricane Mk IIC Fighter Aircraft 2 12 14 5 5 6/41 5/45
Hawker Audax Ground Attack Aircraft 3 8 10 3 4 7/41 8/41
SBD Dive Bombers 2 18 24 5 6 12/41 1/44
Hurricane IID Anti-Tank 2 32 44 5 8 6/42 4/43
Typhoon Ground Attack 2 36 48 6 7 8/42 5/45
P-40E Ground Attack 2 20 26 6 6 11/42 5/45
F4U Fighter Aircraft 2 9 12 8 5 2/43 5/45
Seafire Mk III Fighter Aircraft 2 14 18 8 6 2/43 5/45
Mosquito Mk VI Fighter 2 26 36 9 7 5/43 5/45
Beaufighter Mk VI Ground Attack 2 22 30 10 6 5/43 5/45
Firefly Mk I Fighter Aircraft 2 12 16 7 6 12/43 5/45
Beaufighter Mk X Ground Attack 2 28 36 10 6 5/44 5/45
P-51 Ground Attack Aircraft 2 18 20 7 6 6/44 5/45

UNITED STATES
P-39 Ground Attack Aircraft 2 18 22 6 6 12/41 5/45
P-38F Fighter 2 26 34 8 7 11/42 5/45
P-40E Ground Attack 2 20 26 6 6 11/42 5/45
A36A Dive Bombers 2 20 28 5 6 11/42 5/45
A-20G Bomber 2 18 68 8 8 11/42 5/45
B-25 Bomber 2 18 68 4 8 11/42 5/45
B-26 Bomber 2 18 68 4 8 2/43 5/45
P-47D Ground Attack 2 36 52 7 8 12/43 5/45
P-51D Ground Attack 2 18 20 7 6 5/44 5/45
A26 Bomber 2 78 102 8 9 11/44 5/45

VICHY FRANCE
Dewoitine D.520 Fighter 5 12 18 3 6 7/40 11/42
Bloch MB-152 Fighter 5 8 12 4 5 7/40 11/42

YUGOSLAVIA
Hurricane Mk I Fighter 3 12 16 5 5 4/41 4/41
Avia B.534.IV Fighter Aircraft 2 6 8 3 4 4/41 9/44
Hawker Fury Fighter 3 6 8 3 4 4/41 4/41
Potez 25 Aircraft Light Bomber 3 6 8 3 4 4/41 4/41
Bruget Br. XIX A2 Light Bomber 3 6 8 3 4 4/41 4/41
Yak Fighter 3 10 14 5 4 10/44 5/45
Il-2m3 Ground Attack 3 24 32 9 6 10/44 5/45

The air files can be found within each game folder. Including the above lists.

cheers

HSL

K K Rossokolski · 07-16-2011, 08:05 AM,

Thank you. I do have access to those details.
Are you sure the WF list is for the original Talonsoft? My recollection is that countries such as Brazil, Ethiopia, and the Spanish War did not arrive until JTCS appeared.
What I am really trying to find out are the criteria by which the attack values were determined.....how they were arrived at.

Herr Straße Laufer · 07-16-2011, 09:45 PM,

(07-16-2011, 08:05 AM)K K Rossokolski Wrote: Thank you. I do have access to those details.

Than you could go further and research each aircraft?

For example:

Hs 123A Ground Attack
Armament:
* 2× 7.92 mm MG 17 machine guns (field modification of 2× 20 mm (0.79 in) MG FF cannon)
* Up to 450 kg (992 lb) of bombs under wings and under fuselage

Bf 109G-6/R4
Armament:
2 MG 131 in cowl, 1 MG 151/20 firing through spinner
2 MK 108 in underwing gondolas

Dewoitine D.520
Armament:
1 × 20 mm Hispano-Suiza HS.404 (60-round drum) cannon
4 × 7.5 mm (0.295 in) MAC 1934 (675 rpg) machine guns

From this data you could extrapolate the combat effects of each aircraft? Basing both soft and hard attacks by what the planes have in their armament?

Quote:Are you sure the WF list is for the original Talonsoft? My recollection is that countries such as Brazil, Ethiopia, and the Spanish War did not arrive until JTCS appeared.

You may pick at nits. I do not mind. ;)
The original files are part of the Talonsoft series. If some details were added later by the Matrix crew then so be it?
My recollection is that they were there in the originals. If Jason wishes to correct that recollection I will then stand corrected.

Quote:What I am really trying to find out are the criteria by which the attack values were determined.....how they were arrived at.

It was my understanding that a miniatures game creator was part of the abstract air rules for the Campaign Series.

John F. Stanoch
Blue Sky series (Blue Sky Enterprises) - currently four modules, Red Sun (Early Far East), Red Star (Eastern Front), White Star (US Daylight Raids), Blue Sea (Mediterranean), and a fifth, Black Cross (Early Western Europe), is in production.

I have his rules. They are 1/300th scale and are interesting table top miniatures game. They have a web site but I am not sure if they are still producing game rules. Some of his minis were photographed for use as icons.

BTW, you are asking the question for what purpose? It sounds like it is really important. :chin:

cheers

HSL