Ersatz Division question

[JohanIV]

By your reaction I assume that you feel offended. I apologize, I'm not an Anglophone and nuances easily escape me. It's a great and even addictive game and I enjoy it immensely.

This is p. 121 from Cron:

"
MACHINE GUN FORMATIONS
1. Development under the Falkenhayn Army Command
The equipment of the Army with machine guns had been implemented shortly before the War. Each of the standing infantry regiments and Jäger battalions, with the exception of the 1st and 2nd Bavarian Jäger Battalions, had its machine gun company. In addition, there were fortress MG detachments. On the other hand, the planned equipment of the reserve infantry regiments that were to be formed, had not yet been carried out.
Thus, at the outbreak of war, in the Field Army, there were 219 infantry regi­ment MGKs (machine gun companies), 16 MGKs in the Jager battalions, 88 Re­serve MGKs in the Reserve infantry regiments, 11 MG detachments in the cavalry divisions and 43 Ersatz MG detachments in the Ersatz divisions.
The establishment of a MG company comprised 2 officers, 95 NCOs and other ranks, 45 horses, 6 MGs drawn by two horses, 1 reserve MG, 3 ammunition wagons, 1 field kitchen, together with, respectively, 1 store wagon, 1 fodder wagon and 1 baggage wagon.
Differing from this, the establishment of a MG detachment had, for the same number of officers, 115 NCOs and other ranks, 87 horses - including 27 riding horses - and 15 vehicles, including 6 MGs each drawn by 4 horses, 1 reserve MG and 3 small arms ammunition wagons.
It was self-evident that efforts would be made to make as valuable a weapon as the machine gun as widely available as possible. At first it was a matter of equipping those infantry regiments which had no machine guns to the same standard as the active infantry regiments. In addition to this there was the matter of equipping the 26 divisions which had been newly formed in 1914.
At first, to meet these requirements, there were available 5 Reserve MG de­tachments, 105 fortress MG detachments and 155 fortress MG detachments. It is true that the fortress formations would only be free as soon as there was no longer any threat to the fortress. Therefore it proved necessary to form many new units. In this connection consideration was given to reinforcing the infantry regiments above the machine gun strength which had hitherto been the norm.
....
I The Inf. Training Regt possessed 2 MGKs.____[maybe Lehr? JIV]
2 Bav. Jäger Batts 1 and 2 had no MGK.
3 25 Res. Inf. Regts had not yet been provided with machine guns.
"

Please note that the OOB in appendix I represents formations as of August 17th.

My take on the MG detachments is this: they were company-sized formations and as mobile as the cavalry MG Coys since they had 87 horses. I beg of you, please consider my suggestion.:bow:

[Volcano Man]

I wish I had the German version of the Cron work as I read German. I wonder if any confusion occurs due to the use of the German word "Abteilung" which can mean either battalion or detachment.

Indeed, I had to get a German copy of Cron because the English translation is HORRIBLE. My English copy, which is around here somewhere, has pencil marks throughout. Mass confusion. I think the issue is that the person who made the translation didn't have a lot of familiarity with German military terms and in many places literal translations are made.

---

By your reaction I assume that you feel offended. I apologize, I'm not an Anglophone and nuances easily escape me. It's a great and even addictive game and I enjoy it immensely.

I am/was NOT offended. What is with all the words being put into my mouth. ;)

What I meant was, the MG units already have horses factored into them, they all had horses. This was true for all armies, they had horses and wagons to pull the MGs around, they didn't carry a hundred pound machine gun across France.

Where I draw then line is with cavalry formation MG detachments/companies/section, where I do give them a speed of 4 instead of 3. It is assumed that although all MG sections do have horses to move them long distances, they don't move tactically with horses. However, cavalry formation MGs typically had a higher degree of mobility out of necessity to (naturally) keep up with the cavalry. So, the speed difference is not so much who had more horses or how many, but rather how they were employed. IIRC, the foot MG units used wagons to transport the troops and MGs long hauls, where as the cavalry MGs units were trained to pack the MGs on horses and the MG troops rode their own horse, while one man held the bridle of the horse that had the MG, allowing them to move quickly, even in a tactical situation.

If I am wrong about that and the German Army was unique here from others, then I am open to further information. I do have Cron and have read it quite extensively cover to cover during the making of F14 however. ;) I just think that there is a fine line here between having horses and being able to move around quickly as if you were limbered up or packed on horses. I just don't see a historical unique strength here for the Germans.

[JohanIV]

Indeed, I had to get a German copy of Cron because the English translation is HORRIBLE. My English copy, which is around here somewhere, has pencil marks throughout. Mass confusion.

True, an entire sentence in the paragraph concerning active divisions rather obviously refers to reserve divisions. My theory is that the use of sections in the OOB for the Ersatz divisions are incorrectly translated and should be detachments. The number of detachments in the Ersatz divisions on p 121 are the same as the number of sections in the OOB in Appendix I.

What I meant was, the MG units already have horses factored into them, they all had horses. This was true for all armies, they had horses and wagons to pull the MGs around, they didn't carry a hundred pound machine gun across France.

Certainly.

Where I draw then line is with cavalry formation MG detachments/companies/section, where I do give them a speed of 4 instead of 3.

Please look at page 121 paragraph 2 again. The MG detachments in the Ersatz divisions are the same as those of the cavalry divisions. We are not talking about three TOEs, just two.

If I am wrong about that and the German Army was unique here from others, then I am open to further information. I do have Cron and have read it quite extensively cover to cover during the making of F14 however. ;) I just think that there is a fine line here between having horses and being able to move around quickly as if you were limbered up or packed on horses. I just don't see a historical unique strength here for the Germans.

Some claim that the Germans carried their MGs tactically to bound forward, but that may be on a level so low that it shouldn't be represented in the game.

Once again, I want to say that this game is addictive.