Visibility under various weather conditions?

[Crossroads]

Generals,

With this fine series, you still learn something new almost every game you play? :bow:

I just took what I thought was a calculated risk, and moved my loaded trucks into open, after first having carefully check they should be out of LOS. They were in the plain open, in front of enemy, but one hex outside the visibility range. Got blasted for it, of course! :kill:

I have also noted that at times, every once and a while, one can spot enemy units that are in no LOS of friendly units. This occurs for a turn, after which they disappear.

There's more to LOS than meets the eye? (pun intended but I am not very good with it :smoke: ). Anyways, thought I would do the right thing and to have a look at the manual. Wow.

Section 5.12 Line of sight:

Weather (Visibility) – Each scenario has a Weather condition associated with it that limits visibility anywhere from a minimum of 1 (one) hex (if conditions list “night”) to a maximum of 20 hexes (if conditions are “clear”). A scenario’s weather and visibility limits can be found by displaying the Scenario screen. Weather will not change during the course of a scenario. See the following chart for the list of possible weather conditions and the visibility limits associated with each.

During the course of a scenario where the visibility is set at 19 or below, the computer performs a random check at the beginning of each player turn to determine if the visibility will change. If it does change, it will increase or decrease by one hex to a maximum of 19 hexes and a minimum of 1 hex. At night, maximum visibility still varies, but darkness (how far the unaided eye can see) will increase, decrease, or stay the same. Darkness can vary from 1 to 3 hexes. All of these changes reflect the weather, cloud cover, and other random sighting factors that occur on the battlefield. To determine the current maximum visibility, check the status menu under scenario information or press the keyboard shortcut U to access the Unit Menu; there, current turn visibility is listed.

Weather Condition / Visibility*
Light Rain / 10-14

Bold text mine. Wow. I was not aware of this.

Is this really what happens, and could it be the computer performs the visibility die cast (between 10-14 hexes in the case I am playing under light rain) per player turn, not per game turn?

So, two questions: does the game engine really perform a visibility check as how the manual describes. It would seem so, or that would explain why I was spotted. My side has the first move per game turn, that's why I was wondering would the visibility change per player turn.

Cool feature, actually (if it does it per game turn, that is. Otherwise I do not see the logic in it?) !!!

And another question: how come you can sometimes spot an unit out of LOS, for a turn, when there is no friendly unit with a direct LOS to that hex despite of visibility range?

EDIT: Well, the manual does say: per player turn. Why per player turn, why not per game turn, as it is supposed to be a parallel six-minute period both sides play in a sequential order. A bug?

Jason, a helping hand here to shed some visibility into this issue?

[Kool Kat]

And another question: how come you can sometimes spot an unit out of LOS, for a turn, when there is no friendly unit with a direct LOS to that hex despite of visibility range?

Actually, this LOS phenomenon happens quite regularly? :chin:

During an enemy's movement / combat phase... all friendly units with a direct LOS to a target hex are destroyed / retreated out of LOS... but you are still able to observe all subsequent enemy unit movement / actions (e.g. unloading passenger units, etc.) in that "now" out of LOS hex(es) for the remainder of your opponent's turn?

Must have something to do with the "simultaneous" movement / actions aspect of players' turns? :chin:

During the course of a scenario where the visibility is set at 19 or below, the computer performs a random check at the beginning of each player turn to determine if the visibility will change. If it does change, it will increase or decrease by one hex to a maximum of 19 hexes and a minimum of 1 hex.

And in regards to Section 5.12 Line of Sight (Visibility) - I had no idea about "variable" visibility as a "standard" rule either! :eek1:

Which begs the question... With visibility being "variable" ( a random chance to increase or decrease by one hex per player turn) as a "standard" rule... why the need for a "Variable Visibility" optional rule? :chin:

Or is this variable visibility ONLY enabled when a player selects the Variable Visibility optional rule?

Hopefully... what you are referencing is an "down level" version of the CS game manual... and does NOT reflect the optional Variable Visibility rule? :chin:

[Crossroads]

Thanks KK,

As for the first question: I had difficulties phrasing my question. Example: I can see an enemy unit behind a town, when I have no units that should be able to spot a hex there in the first place.

As for the second question: yes, the quote is from Chapter 5 - Combat, Section 5.12 LOS and is about LOS in general. Nothing to do with VV. Or does it?

The manual does not have a word about VV. Was VV once a non-optional new feature? Is that what the description is about?

But yes, that's my interpretation. It would seem the visibility may change twice per game turn, ie. once per player, without VV.

Yes, I am very confused now :)

[Kool Kat]

The manual does not have a word about VV. Was VV once a non-optional new feature? Is that what the description is about?

I believe what you state is correct. I believe it was in JTCS update 1.03... both VV and EA were "standard"... and than because of the uproar these rules created in the JTCS community... Jason came out with a 1.04 update that made both these controversial rules "optional?" :chin:

The game manual has not been updated - hence the text that reflects the original variable visibility as a "standard" rule.

[Crossroads]

That's right, the manual does mention v. 1.03.

OK, and here's the fun part.

We are playing using VV! :eek1:

Ouch!

Classic!

I did check the rules, and now I recall I thought, "VV, cool, have not played with it before..." Then paid no thought about it afterwards. Actually, pretty much forgot the whole thing.

This is actually a pretty cool thing that happened.

On the left corner, General Schmidt, trying to sneek in some reinforcements under the cover of rainy weather...

On the right corner, a brief sunny spell and waiting T-34s...

Ka-boom!

[Kool Kat]

This is actually a pretty cool thing that happened.

On the left corner, General Schmidt, trying to sneak in some reinforcements under the cover of rainy weather...

On the right corner, a brief sunny spell and waiting T-34s...

Ka-boom!

Actually, it is "kool" only if the original scenario designer factored in variable visibility conditions in the creation of his scenario? :chin:

[Crossroads]

I would argue it was a cool thing regardless.

[Jason Petho]

I would argue it was a cool thing regardless.

Under the 1.04 UPDATE, Variable Visibility is only in effect if the initial scenario LOS is set between 5 and 15 hexes AND Variable Visibility is turned on.

Jason Petho

[Glint]

I think these options are a good thing in the game.The only exception being,
surely the VV should apply to the turn, not each player's turn?

[Crossroads]

My initial thought as well. Then again, more unpredictable this way. I mean, I did check the visibility, but got caught out regardless :smoke:

Of course, it does not make sense as such as it is supposed to be the same time period, but it played out quite nicely.