Are they Visible or Not?

**Compass Rose** · 03-22-2012, 10:57 AM,

I have a visibility game question.

Say you have two squads sharing the same position and both have LOS on the enemy and the enemy has LOS on the hex they occupy. If squad one opens up fire, and the other squad, (squad two) has either not fired at all and/or has a "Hold Fire" command against it, is squad two visible to the enemy also, or are they not visible until they open up fire, and just squad one is visible to the enemy?

Also, if only part of a squad opens up, are they the only ones from the squad to be seen by the enemy or does the full squad become visible to the enemy. even though some of them have not fired yet?

Thanks

Ozgur Budak · 03-22-2012, 06:29 PM,

(03-22-2012, 10:57 AM)Compass Rose Wrote: I have a visibility game question.

Say you have two squads sharing the same position and both have LOS on the enemy and the enemy has LOS on the hex they occupy. If squad one opens up fire, and the other squad, (squad two) has either not fired at all and/or has a "Hold Fire" command against it, is squad two visible to the enemy also, or are they not visible until they open up fire, and just squad one is visible to the enemy?

You can direct fire to a hex without spotting anything. In that case the fire effect will be reduced though. I dont have the math but it should be half. So in your case the enemy units fire will have full effect on the spotted squad and it will have reduced effect on the other squad.

(03-22-2012, 10:57 AM)Compass Rose Wrote: Also, if only part of a squad opens up, are they the only ones from the squad to be seen by the enemy or does the full squad become visible to the enemy. even though some of them have not fired yet?

Thanks

One weapon's fire will be enough to spot the entire squad.

**Compass Rose** · 03-22-2012, 10:32 PM,

Thanks Oz! Salute

Rabbit · 03-22-2012, 11:59 PM,

Just to provide an example:

If you had one leader, a squad of six men and a second squad of nine men. If only one man in the squad of six men fired, then the entire squad of six men would become visible. However both the leader and the second squad of nine men would remain concealed.

It is also worth noting that I believe only the weapon that fired becomes unconcealed. Meaning if the six men carried a LMG and rifles but only the LMG fired, then only the LMG would become unconcealed (along with that entire squad). Because of this, you know there is a squad there, but you only know about the particular weapon that fired. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this.)

Ozgur Budak · 03-23-2012, 12:23 AM,

(03-22-2012, 11:59 PM)Rabbit Wrote: Just to provide an example:

It is also worth noting that I believe only the weapon that fired becomes unconcealed. Meaning if the six men carried a LMG and rifles but only the LMG fired, then only the LMG would become unconcealed (along with that entire squad). Because of this, you know there is a squad there, but you only know about the particular weapon that fired. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this.)

Thats correct.

**Compass Rose** · 03-23-2012, 12:43 AM,

(03-22-2012, 11:59 PM)Rabbit Wrote: Just to provide an example:

If you had one leader, a squad of six men and a second squad of nine men. If only one man in the squad of six men fired, then the entire squad of six men would become visible. However both the leader and the second squad of nine men would remain concealed.

It looks like the leader is the important part of this.

So if there was no leader and one of the members from the squad of six opens up for the 1st time, the whole squad of six becomes visible. If there is a second squad of nine that shares the same hex as the squad of six, who just fired, the whole second squad would also become visible however, if a leader was present that had command over that second squad of nine guys, then they would stay hidden from the enemy?

Mad_Dog · (This post was last modified: 03-23-2012, 12:59 AM by Mad_Dog.)

No, only the unit that fires is visible, regardless of a leader being present or not. Any other units in the hex will be hidden by FOW until they do something. Rallying by a leader will make him visible, and calling in artillery may as well, I'm not sure about that one.

**Compass Rose** · 03-23-2012, 01:05 AM,

Thanks guys for clarifying things!

Rabbit · (This post was last modified: 03-23-2012, 01:10 AM by Rabbit.)

Nope, the leader is considered just another unit when it comes to concealment. Think of it in terms of if you wanted to move the units from one hex to another. You can move just the leader, just the squad of six men, and/or just the squad of nine men. They are all distinct units. If any one of those distinctly separate units fires a weapon, then that distinctly separate unit becomes visible.

In other words, if only the leader fires, then only the leader becomes visible (and the two squads remain concealed). If any member of the squad of six men fires, then the squad of six men becomes visible (and the leader and the squad of nine men remain concealed). If any member of the squad of nine men fires, then the squad of nine men becomes visible (and the leader and the squad of six men remain concealed). If there was no leader in the hex and a member of the squad of six men fires, then the squad of six men becomes visible (and the squad of nine men remain concealed).

And note, the same thing applies to movement. If any one of those distinctly separate units moves (e.g., moves from one hex to another or changes into or out of Ground mode), then that distinctly separate unit becomes visible. If the other units in the hex don't move, then they don't become visible.

It looks like Abram beat me to the punch there. Darn his speedy internet connection! :)