Opponent for Waterloo 007

Vincent · 06-29-2012, 02:35 PM,

I believe there is a correct "historical" version of Waterloo out there. Yes the stock HPS one is quite inaccurate. I think HPS Waterloo suffers the worst of historical inaccuracies compared to other titles.

Nonetheless, quite a battle can still be had if these things don't bother you.

jonnymacbrown · (This post was last modified: 06-29-2012, 02:57 PM by jonnymacbrown.)

I believe there is a correct "historical" version of Waterloo out there. Yes the stock HPS one is quite inaccurate. I think HPS Waterloo suffers the worst of historical inaccuracies compared to other titles. Nonetheless, quite a battle can still be had if these things don't bother you.

Obviously it does bother me. It's why I bought the game. Every historical scenario in HPS Waterloo is a complete fantasy, and fantasy scenarios are what Charlie C. was most famous for (for example, the Pickett's Charge scenario where Pickett's Division is armed with AK-47 rifles). Charlie didn't do an ounce of real historical research for any scenario he ever presented. He just collected his pay and moved on, but everyone has to live with it. jonny Jester

Al Amos · 06-29-2012, 04:46 PM,

There is also an editor. Let me know when either of you post an "accurate" historical scenario. Time to put up or shut up, gentlemen. Making scenarios isn't as easy as it looks. Of course some folk just complain, and don't contribute to the solution of percieved "problems". Time will tell if you're just complainers, or not.

(btw, only a posted scenario will prove me wrong.)

al amos - scenario designer

**agmoss99** · 06-29-2012, 05:43 PM,

Indeed there are major historical flaws in the scenarios. There are some modified scenarios over at the SDC and elsewhere. I know that a lot of work went into correcting Quatre Bras. I hope these are ported over to the game whenever it's patched to conform with later engines. I agree that of all games Waterloo is in most need of a major overhaul. Then NRC I'd say - partly addressed by the History & Realism project over at the NWC forum.

Scenario design is not easy. I tried with Leipzig and clearly the historical sources were vague, contradictory and in Nafzigger's case frequently contradicted himself.

I don't know who playtested Waterloo. But such design errors should have been picked up by the team. Certainly of all the games I've worked with the testing and accuracy have been pretty rigorous, within the constraints of playability and known historical facts. It's possible that playability was a more important determinant than accuracy in Waterloo, I don't know. The Company Level scenarios on the other hand are very well researched but then they were from a different designer.

Picket's Charge with AK-47's? ......ok. We all have our idiosyncracies I guess. We await Belgians v Aliens at Waterloo.

**Compass Rose** · 06-30-2012, 03:08 AM,

Sorry I can't comment on the historical game play of Waterloo since I know next to nothing about the Nap war. NAP

I can however, comment about the HPS Waterloo game. From my point of view, after playing several scenarios, it is a very fun and enjoyable game to play! :)

FM WarB · 06-30-2012, 10:23 AM,

Here are some scenarios with units.bmp mod that I did, some time ago.

Four day scenario, Ligny/Quatre Bras scenario and Waterloo/Wavre scenario.

As historically accurate as I could make them...

http://myweb.cableone.net/williampeters/...bajan.html

**Compass Rose** · 06-30-2012, 10:53 AM,

Good Stuff Warren! Thumbs Up

Thanks for sharing it with us.

How long did this project take you to complete?

FM WarB · 06-30-2012, 11:05 AM,

About a year of research/playtesting with jonnymacbrown.

And these things are never finished! An update will be in order when the engine gets updated.

Vincent · (This post was last modified: 06-30-2012, 03:45 PM by Vincent.)

(06-29-2012, 04:46 PM)Al Amos Wrote: There is also an editor. Let me know when either of you post an "accurate" historical scenario. Time to put up or shut up, gentlemen. Making scenarios isn't as easy as it looks. Of course some folk just complain, and don't contribute to the solution of percieved "problems". Time will tell if you're just complainers, or not.

(btw, only a posted scenario will prove me wrong.)

al amos - scenario designer

Al,

I respect all the hard work designers put into scenarios, this isn't some blind criticism just for the sake of complaining. The fact is, these scenarios contain historical inaccuracies. There is to some degree, a limit upon which you can deliver historically accurate scenarios with the information available.

Unfortunately, this is not the case with HPS Waterloo. The scenarios suffer from a blatant disregard to the historical settings and are far from even a basic historical standard.

Although I can potentially still enjoy much of what this title has to offer, I can't agree that its research and design were historically based.

jonnymacbrown · (This post was last modified: 06-30-2012, 04:01 PM by jonnymacbrown.)

I respect all the hard work designers put into scenarios, this isn't some blind criticism just for the sake of complaining. The fact is, these scenarios contain historical inaccuracies. There is to some degree, a limit upon which you can deliver historically accurate scenarios with the information available.
Unfortunately, this is not the case with HPS Waterloo. The scenarios suffer from a blatant disregard to the historical settings and are far from even a basic historical standard. Although I can potentially still enjoy much of what this title has to offer, I can't agree that its research and design were historically based.

Vincent, if you want to play a 4 day scenario, the one designed by me and FM Baj is a good one. It's called Four Days in June. The FM listed the link. You and your opponent need to make a "Gentleman's agreement" not to make night moves and not to move units before 0900 on the 16th, 17th and 18th. Other than that, it's lots of fun AND historically accurate. Jonny:rolleyes2: LOL