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Thinking about larger battles.........
07-28-2012, 02:22 AM,
#1
Thinking about larger battles.........
You have some with Stalingrad. Others I can think of off the top of my head that I thoink would be real interesting, but long and or suitable for some great team games. I'm talking the full time but would have to insert some sort of resupply, refit type of things, even if have to add equipment drops for paras and load jeeps with supply points to resupply forward units in a convoy or whatever. It would add an interesting dimension the the games, larger battles only of course.

Brit 1st Para Div (including Pol para bde) in Market-Garden
82nd AB in Market-Garden
101st AB in Market-Garden
XXX Corps to round out entire MG campaign

Jerusalem 67

Hue 68

Dien Bien Phu 54

Bastogne

St Vith

I know there are others and will think of more later. Many gamers play several different types of game series here at the Blitz and much larger and longer games in them. Would really like to hear if there is any more interest out there. I think they would all be good. If enough interest, maybe one of the scenario builders might take one on to see. I think Hue would be a really good, confusing fog of war type of fight with units arriving or already scattered fighting in the city would be awesome. I think they all would, but that wouldn't be a bad place to start.
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07-28-2012, 02:51 AM,
#2
RE: Thinking about larger battles.........
I'm game for any. Some of us are playing a RV scenario on a 3 vs 3 and it's a lot of fun. I would really like to see a balanced/symmetric game specifically designed for a team where the SKILL of the players would be tested as opposed to quantity and quality of units, hence balance would be paramount.
'Pedites Pugnas Decernent'
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07-28-2012, 03:13 AM,
#3
RE: Thinking about larger battles.........
http://tfe4.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/...ch-dbp.pdf

I think you'll find that putting together a quality small to medium sized scenario challenging and time consuming, which is probably why you don't see a ton of really massive ones in the 10 years SB has been in existence. Keep in mind that Marc worked on the Stalingrad stuff on and off for the better part of the last decade.

My suggestion would be to play around a bit, start crafting some stuff and see if you can put together the massive type scenarios you're looking for. The entire map of Hue is available on VN, so that would be doable in the regard that you don't need to try to create a map. Some of the ones you're listing don't exist, and since there is no true map editor, would be impossible to re-create.
Site Commander: Task Force Echo 4
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07-29-2012, 06:50 AM,
#4
RE: Thinking about larger battles.........
(07-28-2012, 02:22 AM)Outlaw Josey Wales Wrote: You have some with Stalingrad. Others I can think of off the top of my head that I thoink would be real interesting, but long and or suitable for some great team games. I'm talking the full time but would have to insert some sort of resupply, refit type of things, even if have to add equipment drops for paras and load jeeps with supply points to resupply forward units in a convoy or whatever. It would add an interesting dimension the the games, larger battles only of course.

Brit 1st Para Div (including Pol para bde) in Market-Garden
82nd AB in Market-Garden
101st AB in Market-Garden
XXX Corps to round out entire MG campaign

Jerusalem 67

Hue 68

Dien Bien Phu 54

Bastogne

St Vith

I know there are others and will think of more later. Many gamers play several different types of game series here at the Blitz and much larger and longer games in them. Would really like to hear if there is any more interest out there. I think they would all be good. If enough interest, maybe one of the scenario builders might take one on to see. I think Hue would be a really good, confusing fog of war type of fight with units arriving or already scattered fighting in the city would be awesome. I think they all would, but that wouldn't be a bad place to start.
----
I'm all for the bigger scenarios, in fact I have a few in the works right now. I was unaware there was a demand for such sized battles; the feedback I'd always gotten was that the smaller battles were more preferable.

Arnhem would be great, sure, but we don't have the map, Brits or Poles (pro west allied) available yet. I have no idea when or if there will be a module covering that phase of WW2. The 82d might be more feasible since we have a Groesbeek Heights & Nijmegan map, though I don't recall a Graves bridge map in ES. Of the 4 facets you mentioned of Market-Garden, the 82nds fight was probably the least in doubt (other than Robert Redford's religous experience in the river crossing).Helmet Wink

Jerusalem - Probably out of the question, I've not heard of a Arab Israeli module, other than the one produced by that guy that abandoned us all in a huff.

Actually Hue is one of the first massive scenarios I had started to produce; I still have all my notes, oob data and such, but I didn't think the player base for the 'Nam series was as large as ES or RV, and after one of the updates way back when, the scenario was 'broken' and required rebuilding. I can re-look that once I finish the other projects I'm working on.

DBP - I gather you mean the final phases at DBP itself; Mike Cox has at least 1 monster scenario of some 500+ turns. I might have to hoodwink CptCav into playing that one with me so I can get a feel for how such a massive amount of turns actually plays out.

Bulge - worth looking at, I'll put that on the list but no promises.

HPS & JT have addressed several issues that now allow very large and long scenarios to be built - one of the remaining problems with long scenarios is that at some point lighting should change (ie.e day & night) and you simply cannot reflect that currently in SB. Ironically I had just brought that very issue up with Rich about a month ago, so we'll have to see if John is interested in adding that or not. It doesn't need to be complex, something like in exists in PzC is fine; icing on the cake would be to have visibility variable go up and down as it got darker and lighter, but as I say, that's chrome.

What I can tell you is that I have the Central Stalingrad map for RV ready to release with handful of scenarios and I've been trying to fine tune a monster scenario of Tarawa that encompasses the entire first day's landings of the 2d Marine Division. The problem with covering the entire 3 days of the battle is as I mentioned, you cannot replicate the onset of night-time. This is when the Banzai attacks usually took place. I also have a mega scenario set in Italy '44 around Santa Maria Infante that I need to refine. As Alan mentioned, much of this work has sat on the shelf for almost 10 years; the SB engine was much more difficult to work with as far as long-term scenarios way back when.

After that, I'm open to looking at Hue again. I had wanted to do another Stalingrad section covering either the Tractor Factory or Red Barricades - but we'll have to see if there is a demand for that.

I'm also open to requests, though I must caveat this with a statement that I am either OCD or some kind of fanatic when it comes to getting OOBs and the minutiae of a scenario accurate - Seppuka is not out of the question if I miss the mark on my design - so any requests would need to be based around what currently exists for SB maps, available forces, vehicles, etc. and of course consideration for the lack of day to night that would allow scenarios to reflect multi-day battles.

Marc
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07-29-2012, 07:45 AM,
#5
RE: Thinking about larger battles.........
Cool, thanks for the promising info. I usually get shot down when I mention things like this. It would be really nice if the map issue with them would iron out. I know they are large and long scenarios, but they would add a bit more strategy. Some sort of resupply/refit thing would probably have to be added for soldiers to get more ammo and recover some fatigue. I think that could also be done similar to PzCs, the resupply/refit would have to be more towards an explicit type rather than a virtual type at this scale. Just my opinion though. I would like to see others voice an opinion whether they are interested in this or not.
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07-29-2012, 12:46 PM,
#6
RE: Thinking about larger battles.........
I am interested in these too! I can help too if needed.
Testing and research and I have some programs too.

"Ideals are peaceful. History is violent."
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07-30-2012, 07:50 AM,
#7
RE: Thinking about larger battles.........
Which Pacific module do most people have? P&F or PW?

I need to decide which engine to use.
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07-30-2012, 08:49 AM,
#8
RE: Thinking about larger battles.........
(07-30-2012, 07:50 AM)Marc Bellizzi Wrote: Which Pacific module do most people have? P&F or PW?

I need to decide which engine to use.

I have both Pacific modules.
"Ideals are peaceful. History is violent."
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07-30-2012, 11:12 PM,
#9
RE: Thinking about larger battles.........
(07-30-2012, 07:50 AM)Marc Bellizzi Wrote: Which Pacific module do most people have? P&F or PW?

I need to decide which engine to use.

If I had to guess, Marc, I'd say most of the players around here have both.

Site Commander: Task Force Echo 4
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07-31-2012, 02:48 AM,
#10
RE: Thinking about larger battles.........
I have both.

On the move from day to night turns, the ACW series has the center ground with dawn and dusk where visibilty is only 4 hexes. I know the scale is different, just mentioning the transition part. If dusk is two hours long, then 24 turns would be dusk in SBs, then goes on to night turns. We already have day and night scenarios and illumination that changes visibilty in a few hexes so it is just a matter of figuring how to put them all together? Say slots 1-12 are day and 11-24 are night making 24 hrs, just adjust to insert dawn and dusk and end up 1-10 day, 11-12 dusk, 13-22 night 23-24 dawn or adjust to match military time, 1-5 night, 6-7 dawn, 8-17 day, 18-19 dusk, 20-24 night. I'm just rambling here to see if something might a place to look at starting or possibly lead to other ideas to help as I don't know how things are coded or how to code.

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