New Unit Update

[Troll]

Hi all

For those of you who may or may not know, me and my friend Mike aka big daddy, have been trying to create and upgrade new/units to the JTCS. We have had some success, some stone walls, and a few added bugs, but all in all we are getting the hang of it with the great help of Jason, who is encrypting the new platoon/weapons files that we create and send him, thanks alot Jacon for your help.

One of our main goals was to bring off board aircraft, on board like the different fighters. We have done that it seems. We now have fighters on board which can either fire all of there ammo in one turn in order to be true to the 6 min rule, and we also have fighters which can fire the entire length of the scenario. The German fighters are the 109, 190, 262 and the allied fighters are the Spitfire and the P51 mustang. We hope to get all of the off board aircraft operational for on board use.

By off board aircraft I mean the aircraft you add via the scenario editor which do not show up in the OOB editor.

I do have a few questions and if anyone can help with an answer, please respond.

When we insert the new weapons/platoon files into our WF folder we lose any and all unit formations below company level, meaning there are no longer any battalion, regiment, brigade, division, corps or army formations in our OOB editor just platoon and company size units to choose from.

The new unit instructions state that the new platoon files will overlay onto the original platoon files but we are at a stone wall with that. Even if we take out the original platoon/weapon and replace them with the new files we still lose all of the unit formations above.

What are we doing wrong? Any suggestions?

We have also managed to bring the goliath from EF and make it a WF unit just to see if we could do individual units.

We have also tried to increase the speed of the naval vessels, but even with the new units added, the ships still move at the same speed with no changes.

I am also working on a way to get around the navel vessel port so ships can unload cargo in a city hex, beach etc, even though the game engine allows you to load units on to navel vessels but will not allow you to unload them. I am not talking about any type of landing craft etc but larger navel vessels like transports, destroyers etc.

One last thing, my Unit Viewer will not work, and I have Windows 7, what, and if any setting to I have to change/tweak to get the UV to work since it is a good tool to use when changing/adding new units. I Downloaded it, unzipped it but when I try to install, it goes into the error mode. It works for Mike but he has Windows XP. The UV worked for me when I had XP and Vista but will not work with Win7.

Well if any one can offer suggestions, please do.

Joe/aka Troll

PS i now have the UV working, the link on the website was broken so I just put in net framework into my browser and DL and the UV works just fine.

[Crossroads]

When we insert the new weapons/platoon files into our WF folder we lose any and all unit formations below company level, meaning there are no longer any battalion, regiment, brigade, division, corps or army formations in our OOB editor just platoon and company size units to choose from.

The new unit instructions state that the new platoon files will overlay onto the original platoon files but we are at a stone wall with that. Even if we take out the original platoon/weapon and replace them with the new files we still lose all of the unit formations above.

What are we doing wrong? Any suggestions?

How I would intepret this is:

- The new platoon files are OK, as you see them in the OOB editor, and are also able to deploy the new unit types into scenarios with Scenario Editor (bitmaps show up and move properly etc).

- The Company OOB is OK, as it finds all the platoon types from Platoon files it is using. In other words, none of the Companies points to a Platoon type that is not there in the Platoon OOB file.

- The Battalion OOB however, is trying to find a Company type that is not there. And breaks down. Do you have a new Battalion specified, if so make sure all the Companies it consists are defined in the Company OOB.

Perhaps you could do a "diff" between the original Battalion OOB file and the new Battalion OOB? Or if you have not touched the Battalion OOB at all, then you have taken out something from the Company OOB?

It only takes one little mistake to break the OOB Editor.

- And while Battalion OOB is broken, the higher level organizations will not build either.

Hope this helped...

One last thing, my Unit Viewer will not work, and I have Windows 7, what, and if any setting to I have to change/tweak to get the UV to work since it is a good tool to use when changing/adding new units. I Downloaded it, unzipped it but when I try to install, it goes into the error mode. It works for Mike but he has Windows XP. The UV worked for me when I had XP and Vista but will not work with Win7.

Well if any one can offer suggestions, please do.

Joe/aka Troll

PS i now have the UV working, the link on the website was broken so I just put in net framework into my browser and DL and the UV works just fine.

I am still not able to make the Unit Viewer work for East Front units, after my new unit types were into EF. Could you be more specific as how you managed to get yours working, with the new Platoon types (units) I presume?

[K K Rossokolski]

How do you get these aircraft flying at different altitudes?

[Troll]

Hi BK, as far as I know the only files that were changed were the Platoon files and weapon file and nothing else. No reason to go into company or higher.
As far as the new units showing up in the UV, I can only say that they do. It appears that if they work then they will show up in the UV. I can only speak for the WF since all of the new units were for WF and not EF. So that I am understanding you correctly you are having trouble with viewing new units in EF? But all I did was install NET Framework 4 and it does work now.

As far as altitude is concerned that it up to the game engine, you will have to talk John Tiller about that.

[Crossroads]

Ok. Regarding Platoon file, you only added new units, and did not alter or remove any existing ones?

I need to try the latest framework version, thanks.

[Warhorse]

Send me your modded platoon files please, I will take a look, see if I can find out the problem!

[Herr Straße Laufer]

If on the map aircraft only occupy the space they are in without a vertical plane, to be on that is above the ground, I think you may be spinning your wheels. You can put wings on Mike's elephants and they would do the exact same thing. (If the elephants were armed, of course.)

Go for it, if it pleases you. Tiller will be doing nothing to help out this old game, so don't hold your breath.



HSL

[Warhorse]

I don't really care for on-board aircraft, as they don't/can't be used correctly. I have choppers in my K'talan mod, but they are not correct, fun yes, but just a unit with free other terrain movement cost, they can't use treetop flight or anything. DGVN has them, and I think they are way too powerful and again, aren't correct, but, that is a flaw in the game engine.

Just my two cents, so don't get pissed!!

[K K Rossokolski]

Mike ..that was the point of my short comment about altitude, above. Air-to-air combat is conducted in 3-D space, whereas CS is conducted on a relief map ie 2D with bumps. In order to even BEGIN to simulate air-to-air combat, we would have to have available, for many different aircraft types, factors such as different altitudes, speed ranges, acceleration rates, climb and descent rates, turn rates and turning circles etc etc. not forgetting directional visibility, fuel endurance, ammo etc. Can't be done.

I believe the VN helos will work, as they are in essence very versatile and mobile trucks, which normally operate at low level, and mobile fire support at close range and low level, although as Mike points out, nap-of the earth can't really be done although CS helo flight can take advantage of the map relief. There was no enemy air threat, but AA was often very heavy. I am working on the values, trying to get the balance right. A problem is that CS doesn't do damage very well. A very large number of helos took hits and managed to find a safe place to land (if necessary}
That said, we will probably need some procedural rules.
Attack aircraft values are developing, noting that the ordnance load mix (guns, napalm, rockets, guns and some A/G missiles) is at least as important as the aircraft type itself. Many, maybe most, strike loads were a mixture.

Good luck with your efforts to tidy up the use of sea transports, etc. If you need any experienced input, my 40+ years in the Navy is at the end of an email.

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Most of the "mods" adding on map airplanes is just taking a tank, changing the icon to an airplane, and then throwing them out on the map.
They will operate as a tank. I think in DG/VN you are not allowed to assault the copters or use them to assault?

Simply out of scale and not good for the game, unless they can be scaled in with vertical ability. Otherwise we will be stuck with a larger set of house rules and claims of cheating, when an airplane does something that it shouldn't? Or, better still does something that the "other player" thinks is not right.

I've seen it with the on map scout aircraft and the ground attack ones. They need to dodge and weave through terrain, can't enter an enemy hex, and can be surrounded by ground troops.
"Oops! My trucks just occupied the hexes around your plane until I could get my anti aircraft guns near it, or a combat unit to assault it." More "realism" that I can do without.



HSL